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[-] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 114 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Note that this is failure to deliver on time, not failure to deliver full stop.

I also think a lot of places claim to be agile, but don't follow or understand the principles at all. Another commenter here is the perfect example of that where they say the opposite of what's in the agile manifesto and claim that it's a representation of what it says.

Maybe that's a fundamental problem with agile. It's just a set of loose principles rather than a concrete methodology being pushed for by a company and it has therefore been bastardised by consulting companies and scrum masters claiming to teach the checklist of practices that will make your company agile. Such a checklist does not exist, it's just a set of ideas to keep in mind while you work out the detailed processes or lack thereof that work for you.

For anyone that wants to refresh their memory on the agile manifesto:

Individuals and interactions over processes and tools

Working software over comprehensive documentation

Customer collaboration over contract negotiation

Responding to change over following a plan

That is, while there is value in the items on the right, we value the items on the left more.

[-] snooggums@midwest.social 10 points 4 months ago

The primary problem is using agile all the time instead of when it is actually intended to be used: short term work that needs to be done quickly by a small team that are all on the same page already.

It sucks for any large group that requires a lot of coordination. Some parts of it are still helpful as part of a blended process, like more collaboration with the customer and responding to change, but those can easily derail a project if not everyone is on the same page through scope creep or losing sight of long term goals.

[-] tyler@programming.dev 4 points 4 months ago

I wonder why anyone would downvote you. to break down what you said:

The primary problem is using agile all the time instead of when it is actually intended to be used

this applies to everything in life. zero reason to downvote this unless you're a zealot who doesn't understand nuance

short term work that needs to be done quickly by a small team that are all on the same page already.

the whole point of agile is to be short term, maybe your downvoter thinks that the team doesn't need to be on the same page???? don't know how that is in any way a good idea. it means you haven't done a good job communicating...

Some parts of it are still helpful as part of a blended process, like more collaboration with the customer and responding to change, but those can easily derail a project if not everyone is on the same page through scope creep or losing sight of long term goals.

anyone that disagrees with this hasn't actually gone through with Agile according to all the tenets. It sucks for anything more than the tiniest projects that don't need long term maintainability. I'm guessing this is where someone disagrees, but I can't fathom why. Maybe they've only worked at one place, they think it actually is working, yet haven't been there long enough to see the downsides or something.

[-] lysdexic@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago

the whole point of agile is to be short term

Not really. The whole point of Agile is to iterate. This means short development cycles which include review and design rounds to adapt to changes that can and will surface throughout the project. The whole point of Agile is to eliminate problems caused by business, project, and technical goals not changing because planning is rigid and can't accommodate any changes because the process does not have room for those.

This is why this whole "things need to be planned" crowd are simply talking out of ignorance. Agile requires global planning, but on top of this supports design reviews along the way to be able to face changing needs. This requires planning in short-medium-long terms.

Don't blame Agile for your inability to plan. No one forces you not to plan ahead.

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this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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