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Seeing a lot of this lately...
(lemmy.world)
Via Berkeley Mews
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this post was submitted on 30 May 2024
1260 points (87.8% liked)
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Yeah, but sometimes that really is enough
Not enough for voters who are undecided about whether to vote or not.
Democrats win when turnout is high. It's not enough to be better than the opponent, to win they must beat apathy.
The two current candidates are so far apart the people who claim to be undecided are ignorant or stupid, willingly or otherwise. I'd understand riding the fence between Biden and Bernie, even if I've made my choice between them, but between Trump and Biden?
That's the kind of person who is undecided if they want to drive to work or walk down the middle of i-95
I think you are perhaps uninformed about the economic state of the poor and working class. Biden hasn't done a whole lot about people's grocery bills doubling and tripling, or the soaring increases in rent while the housing supply has remained artificially low, but he's made sure that blank checks for war appear out of thin air at every turn.
Can't expect to win an election like this when people can't afford to miss a day of work.
Yeahhhh, no.
Like the original commenter said, you are either ignorant or stupid.
Anyone who actively lived during Trump's awful years in office has all the info we need to NOT vote for that fucking orange idiot, and instead CLAMBER to anyone with ANY semblance of sanity.
If you honestly think that Biden losing will help anyone in any way whatsoever (besides Trump and his little rich bastards who are as evil as he is), you, and anyone else who feels that way, are a lost cause.
Anyone who is eligible to vote actively lived through the trump years. And a third of those voters disagree with you. Calling them stupid is not an effective way to help them change their minds or voting decisions.
Day to day economic realities matter to the average voter.
I don't give a flying fuck about changing anyones mind any more. If you actively lived through the awful Trump years, you don't need your fucking mind changed. Most of those "third of voters" are a lost cause, so I do not give a fuck about trying to get them to maybe open their eyes just a little bit.
Also, yes, I'm sure the "economic realities" really matter to those voters when this is who they will allow back into office.
It's okay if projecting makes you feel better.
Let's just cut to the chase--is your argument that both sides are the same? Or that voting for Biden is just as bad as voting for Trump, or not voting? Or are you just arguing to stir things up? Trying to figure out where your willful ignorance lies.
I’m sure Trump will get right on that.
"My candidate is just as shitty as the other guy" isn't quite the profound defense you think it is.
That is probably the lamest possible misinterpretation you could make, but I’m sure that’s intentional. Nobody is “both sides”-ing them but you.
I think that should say “my candidate is far less shitty than the other guy” which is a different situation.
Tell me what you think he could have done without Congress.
Let's hear it.
Give me the actual steps that you believe Biden could have done but did not do.
Well I hope that goes the right way for you over there.
then they should be doing something to make voters want to turn out.
The only Democrat with the power to do anything at the moment is Biden, and his power is limited.
But he's been doing a lot within that limited power.
And I genuinely don't care whatever some asshole from hexbear with their Lemmy World alt is about to pop in here and reply with, because the fundamental issue is not Biden, it is Congress and the Supreme Court. Congress is absolutely fucked, and that is not Biden's fault, it's the Constitution's fault, and the fault of Red State conservatives that have completely gerrymandered their states to hell, and the Supreme Court that did not stop them. It is not biden's fault at the Supreme Court is now stacked with corrupt conservative justices that will strike down anything he does that they think they can make a case against.
It is very, very convenient to forget that the other two branches exist when you're intent is to make Biden look like he hasn't done anything or committed to his campaign promises.
i think you are heavily subestimating the power of money here.
What’s your position?
“Not a fascist dictator that openly wants to kill democracy.”
Honestly, no. In Turkey the opposition used that strategy since 2002 and lost every single vote, except the last local elections where they finally decided to do things a little differently (+ the financial crisis). If your only selling point is "not being the other guy" then your whole election campaign is basically an advertising for the other guy.
In Canada at the federal level the Conservatives are on their way to have a majority using this exact tactic, they're voting against anything the government tries to do (even stuff they asked for in the past) and they're promising to make everything better once elected, no one knows how, not even them.
Exactly this. It just boils down to manufacturing consent for the other guy’s terrible policies, and results in hopelessness leading to voter apathy. Braindead strategy with 0 concept of leadership.
I think it depends on the context and the details.
If your sell is “I’m not Mitt Romney,” that is pretty weak, even if you don’t like Romney.
If your sell is “I’m not Donald Trump,” that is a much more compelling thing to consider. I mean the fucker is on trial for and got impeached for some things that are truly heinous to see from a random schmuck, never mind the freaking President of the US.
It's a losing strategy politically because people are too fucking dumb to vote against someone holding a gun to their head unless someone else is promising them a unicorn, but as a potential voter, it's an exceptionally good reason to get off your ass and actually vote for a candidate who can win.
This. I've never voted for 'not the other guy', but I will this time. Honestly, the democrats could run Vinny the Wino and I'd vote for him over Trump.
It's really not if you're a wage earner in 2/3 of US states, where it's still perfectly legal to pay you $7 an hour. Since Idaho got away with criminalizing abortion, 2/3 of the states will soon follow.
Hell, homelessness jumped 12% in 2023 alone. I'm guessing, for those people, "I'm not Trump" isn't going to be as persuasive an argument as you might think.
What about “the economy is actually doing great Jack!” ?
It blows my mind how often people try to argue that someone should be elected on the strength of the economy when said economy isn't doing jack shit for the poor and working class.
Unfortunately I don’t think we collectively vote to help the poor and working class in the first place.
Wish we had a party who gave a shit in order to vote for this, and that it were a much bigger plank of their platform. It’s a disgrace that anyone is unhoused in the richest nation on Earth.
I can’t even begin to describe how much more I would prefer we do this, than to continue fattening the wallets of boomers who own multiple homes and only live in one of them. We literally don’t invest in building new housing in order to maintain this status quo, and it’s absurd.
It's really hard to vote if you don't have a home address, so those unhoused people don't matter in our system.
And you'd think after 2016 the Democrats might have realized that they need those votes, but they're too busy getting wealthier to care.