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China using families as 'hostages' to quash dissent abroad
(www.bbc.co.uk)
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this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023
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Don't feed the troll. He's an actual professional troll who will try his hardest to drag you into a debate. I like to just keep editing my comments with new links that refute his claims, and that's when he totally loses it and gives me -30 and himself +55 updoots on a post with a grand total of 18 votes. He's really aggressive but he's not very good at his job.
Edit: I can see he has gone through my post history and downvoted everything so I have 0 or negative karma or whatever it's called.. and he did it a week afterwards. He's a spiteful little troll, isn't he? I don't care about updoots. You can't silence the truth, you dumb fuck.
Most notably, they will not actually engage in any real discussion on these topics. They only want to shut down discussion by calling everyone brainwashed. They will offer not a single critical word against China or Russia, past present or future. Obviously this analysis is very noteworthy, and the conjecture that these societies are above reproach makes for a very good faith argument. Especially when combined with the intellectually honest strategy of removing their opponent's agency by calling them brainwashed. Truly a master debater.
It's proof of your integrity that you admit good things about China . . . Because surely you will eventually, right?
I have no idea where you get that idea from. I have tons of praise for China - the culture, the people, the food, the history. I speak ok Mandarin, have family in China and visit once a year typically. I probably have more direct experience with China than anyone on lemmygrad. Unlike those folks, I'm not just here to troll and disrupt conversation. I want to have real conversations about the good as well as the bad. It's the tankie trolls who will never actually engage in good faith. It's the surest sign someone is, in fact, just a troll imo.
You're changing the question, I mean the Chinese government and so did you in your previous comment. I'm sure you're aware that "tankies" don't just give a blanket endorsement of, for example, patriarchal social norms in China, and believe there are many cultural elements which must be the object of struggle. One must conclude that you didn't include that because it was beyond the scope of your claim when you said "China".
What was that about bad faith?
The tankies on Lemmy absolutely give it a blanket endorsement. Trust me I've tried many times to seek a real discussion on this topic. Specifically with regard to the hukou caste system and lack of public trials. I think this is very low hanging fruit tbh.
You are pushing in the direction of "he said/she said". If I made a thread over on lemmygrad and actually asked about this, would you accept that as evidence?
Of course, that would be super interesting. I'm left-lib and every interaction I've had with them so far has led me to believe they are the most ridiculous kind of ML extremists
That's a little heartening. Lemmygrad is aware of this thread, but I'll try to word the post to not tip my hand too too much, and then I'll link it back here and you can watch it (actually, you can post in it if you want since you're on a lemmy.ml account, but that's up to you).
Let me tell you from experience that sometimes people only look ridiculous because of prejudices we are bringing into the interaction (though some people are ridiculous).
Should I include Russia or is that too easy?
As an aside in the meantime, what do you make of the fact that I am quite willing to talk about negative elements despite being a "tankie"?
The thing is, I get they are trolling. It's just dumb and obnoxious. Also, kinda cringe, and definitely counterproductive.
I think your willingness to even make an effort at this kind of engagement is refreshing, but I also this this is sadly, a very low bar.
Eh, I've seen errors here and there (and called them out, as you can see) but I think they are generally putting forward decent arguments with better evidence. The Yuri Gagarin stan for example is very well-read and intelligent, you just need to demonstrate good faith (and maybe catch him in a not-bad mood). Anyway, here's the thread that I just made. Feel free to upvote for visibility, we'll see how it goes.
We got at least a couple of takers, and I expanded a little on some of my views. What do you think?
I should mention that one thing that probably skews matters is a prevalent thought (that I mostly agree with) among communists that the criticism of rivals of one's state to appease liberals is not a good use of time. The reasoning goes that you aren't really in a position to correct those problems, so spending time on these things when speaking publicly is only going to support the basis for a "left opposition" to those foreign states even if that's not your personal aim. A version of this has been used by the FBI.
Because of this, I think your sampling might have been sabotaged by people operating on that principle, because convincing a liberal to be an anarcho-bidenist [someone who claims to be a radical but supports US foreign policy and/or the Democrats] isn't really a useful effort.
The guy you're replying to is litteraly responding with '🤡' to well written out responses.
Yes he is truly on a role!