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submitted 6 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/nottheonion@lemmy.world
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[-] kescusay@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

Why?

Because Iran is a Russian ally and Russian proxy.

Biden is doing this - he is threatening the ICC and ICJ

No, he isn't. Where in the world are you getting the idea that he's literally "threatening" either?

Biden is not doing this. We have not stopped weapon shipments and have clearly been unable (more like unwilling) to stop or prevent Israel’s genocide

Dude, we temporarily halted shipments earlier this month to put pressure on Netanyahu. Were you sleeping?

Also, Israel is not our ally. Their geopolitical interests align with Putin. Which is why they are trying to get Trump elected so that they can destroy the remnants of the “rules based international order” and begin in earnest their conquest of Greater Israel

Netanyahu's interests may align with Putin, but only insofar as both seem hell-bent on destabilizing the region. Putin would gladly let Iran stroll right into Israel and slaughter everyone in it. Israel's own actual interests do not remotely align with Putin's.

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago

Because Iran is a Russian ally and Russian proxy.

Yes, but why does that mean stopping US weapons shipments to Israel would cause Iran to invade/attack/etc? Israel has a huge weapons stockpile and is still a Western ally - they just happen to be committing genocide with American funds and bombs.

Where in the world are you getting the idea that he's literally "threatening" either?

https://www.ft.com/content/6700a246-e0cd-49d8-b5ef-d2379e86290f

"The administration of President Joe Biden will work with Congress on possible sanctions against the International Criminal Court after its prosecutor announced it was seeking arrest warrants for senior Israeli and Hamas officials, US secretary of state Antony Blinken said on Tuesday."

we temporarily halted shipments earlier this month to put pressure on Netanyahu

We resumed those shipments and funds, and Israel has since crossed Biden's red line and attacked Rafah

Netanyahu's interests may align with Putin

Netanyahu/Likud are dictators who control Israel. Until he/they are removed, their interests are Israel's interests. Which means that Israel is a Russian asset with a stranglehold on American funds thanks to AIPAC

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

I'd just like to remind you folks the headline you're debating under:

Nikki Haley writes ‘finish them’ on IDF artillery shells during Israel visit

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago

Biden/Dems sent the genocide bombs and Haley/Republicans autographed them.

I'm not sure how that improves things

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

US presidents are required by American law since 2008 to ensure that Israel is better armed than all its neighbours. Biden doesn't have a real choice unless he can get a bill through both houses to stop arming Israel. I don't think that's even remotely realistic.

Trump would be twice as bad for Palestine. "Finish them" is an actual call to genocide.

But you don't care for facts, you just want to blame Biden for everything that you think left wingers might not like so they'll not vote and Trump can get in.

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago

presidents are required by American law since 2008 to ensure that Israel is better armed than all its neighbours

Or else what?

Also, funding and arming genocide is also illegal. And immoral. And stupid.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy_Law

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1091

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Sounds like Nikki Haley is supposed to be fined half a million dollars in that there anti genocide law you linked to:

Whoever directly and publicly incites another to violate subsection (a) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

I don't think you can interpret Nikki Haley writing "finish them" on an Israeli bomb as anything other than a call to genocide.

Sorry if that interrupts your attempt to make this news article not about Nikki Haley writing "finish them" on an Israeli bomb.

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago

But she obviously will never be charged. Ever.

Genocide is bad because it's evil, not because it's illegal. Idk why you're fixated on laws here

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Which would make Nikki Haley writing "finish them" on an Israeli bomb when Israel is already bombing vast numbers of civilians in Gaza about the most obvious, public and and direct call to completed genocide you could make, I think.

Do you think she did it to make it more likely she'd be picked as Trump's running mate/Secretary of State, or do you think she's just pitching early to be the post-Trump leader, or is she just a run of the mill genocidal maniac?

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago

Who cares? Biden sent the bombs and Netanyahu is using them. She has no power here - they do.

She's evil as a general matter. But Biden and Netanyahu are worse regarding the current genocide

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

You keep changing the subject away from Nikki Haley's call to genocide. But I'll bite again. The key question for American voters who care about Gaza is whether Trump or Biden are going to be worse for the Palestinians, because the election is on a knife edge according to the polls. Which do you think would be worse?

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago

Biden and Netanyahu are currently perpetrating genocide. Haley is not.

What did Never Again mean after the Holocaust? Did it mean nothing?

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

You're avoiding the question: The key question for American voters who care about Gaza is whether Trump or Biden are going to be worse for the Palestinians, because the election is on a knife edge according to the polls. Which do you think would be worse?

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Biden is currently committing genocide. Which is the worst crime there is.

Trump would also commit genocide.

Biden needs to change his policy on this drastically. Why won't he? If he doesn't, he loses.

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

Personally, I think it's the Israelis who are committing the genocide with America's support from pretty much all of the Republicans and most of the Democrats, but you didn't answer the question: Up to now, Trump has a slight lead in the polls. Who would be worse for the people of Gaza, Biden or Trump?

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago

It's like asking if Auschwitz or Dachau is worse

Both need to be liberated

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You don't admit any moral difference between trying to slow the killing down and trying to speed it up, and the reason is that you're only pretending to care about Gaza what you really care about is discouraging left leaning voters from voting so that your guy Trump can win.

You'll deny it, I'm reasonably sure, but that's the effect of your outright condemnation of Biden and your extreme head in the sand refusal to admit that the Republicans in general, and Trump in particular, are far more committed to the Israeli military and its aims, always have been and likely will be for decades to come.

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago

Biden is not trying to slow the genocide down. He is funding it and arming it.

He is better than Trump on every other issue. There is no difference here on the issue of genocide

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Factually incorrect:

Biden: Don't bomb Rafah.
Trump: ....

Biden: Cancels some of the armament shipments
Republicans: object loudly to Biden cancelling armament shipments

Biden: We should have a permanent ceasefire
Trump: PALM BEACH, Fla. — Former President Donald Trump declared Tuesday that Israel must “finish the problem” in its war against Hamas, his most definitive position on the conflict since the terror group killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 200 hostages on Oct. 7.

The Republicans would accelerate it all. The Republicans share Israel's aim to "finish them".

[-] beardown@lemm.ee 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Israel bombed Rafah and Biden did nothing.

Biden has consistently given Israel all of the military aid it asks for. The "pause" lasted only a few days. And then Israel bombed Rafah

There will not be a permanent ceasefire. This is purely optics to make it look like Biden is doing something. And will be used to blame Hamas and justify additional murder when the negotiations inevitably collapse. It is only for optics

The Republicans are identical to the Dems in terms of policy on the Gazan Genocide. The Dems just use softer language when they exterminate Gazans than the Republicans would.

I don't care what language is used. I don't care about aesthetics. I care about stopping the United States and Israel's extermination of the Gazans. Biden needs to do that, and to enact systemic regime change in Israel to prevent this from ever happening again

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

Well, I'm not going to get you to admit that Trump and the Republicans plan on being far, far worse for Palestine, and I think that if you really did care about Gaza you'd do whatever you could to keep Trump out of the White House, but you really, really, really don't want to hear it.

I warned you, though. I warned you as best as I could.

[-] beardown@lemm.ee -3 points 6 months ago

Do you think you're good at being persuasive?

this post was submitted on 29 May 2024
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