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submitted 5 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] Technus@lemmy.zip 215 points 5 months ago

Not once have I encountered a trans person on a dating app who wasn't 100% transparent about it. Some even asked me after matching, "you're aware that I'm trans, right?" just to be sure.

There's no logical reason to falsely pretend to be cis on a dating app to get matches. If someone's cool about it then it's better to know up front, right? And if they're not, then you probably don't want to waste your time on them.

The "justification" for this app is just bigotry, plain and simple. Fuck TERFs.

[-] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 54 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

This is a great point.

The technology that excludes transwomen from the app is the clear warning that the app is populated exclusively for transphobes. It's obviously wildly dangerous for a transwoman to be on the app.

The notion that AI is going to clock them is absurd AI hype. There's no reason to expect AI to be capable of this kind of discernment, and that assumes you even had a training set. Where in the absolute fuck would someone find a training set like that?

Edit: I didn't read the article. It seems it's a lesbian dating app. Well, probably less dangerous for transwomen, but still not technically sound.

[-] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 44 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

We sometimes have to clarify that LGBT+ folk aren't particularly virtuous, just people, and like the rest of the population suffers from its own share of internal bigotry. The lesbian community is no exception.

Lesbians range from really rather bisexual to staunchly misandrist and there are different gatekeeping checkpoints, where some don't count trans women as lesbians to others that don't want to date a woman who's ever been with a man (which makes for a really small dating pool).

But this kind of exclusion is not about who these women date, rather who they allow into their community and are allowed to come to their potlucks and tea parties. Generally communities that are progressive and have experienced external oppression and dehumanization are glad to be welcoming and inclusive. Mostly. And I think this includes the lesbian community.

From my experience. I'll get to how that's tricky.

I've found the lesbian circles I've engaged with have been even more inclusive than the general LGBT+ community. They're actually really good about including bisexuals and trans women that are into women. However, this is partly due to the anthropic principle: Even though I'm enby I still have [M] on my state ID, look like a dude and have male parts, and have been completely forthright about this even in online circles (e.g. r/actuallesbians) where no-one would ever know I was really a cat. But this means that I don't get invites to circles that are more restrictive, since I'd be high on the no-admittance list.

But inclusive lesbians are not super fond of less inclusive ones, especially since human sexuality can change over time. The closet has multiple doors, and when your best friend who invites you to all the get-togethers is a women-only transphobe second-wave feminist (this was a thing), and suddenly you've been taking an interest in a special guy, you're going to keep your bi-curiosity hidden from your friend (or stop being friends). And as per the whole thing of coming out, the point of the LGBT+ community is being able to be who you are, and being accepted and validated.

So when I see a lesbians dating app that is intentionally looking to draw transphobes, it reminds me of those conservative dating apps to hook up men in the white power movement with trad-wife minded women, which is to say it's good they're over there and not trying to date people over here that they're ultimately going to disappoint and hurt.

[-] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 21 points 5 months ago

I've been excluded more often for being bi than being trans in lesbian circles.

[-] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago

Good point. I don't want to date trans people, but I wouldn't want to use an app that purposely excluded them. I'd rather occasionally have to go "oh sorry thanks for telling me" than restrict my dating pool to bigots.

[-] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 14 points 5 months ago

Not once have I encountered a trans person on a dating app who wasn’t 100% transparent about it.

...that you know of. not defending bigots or bullying, but that statement doesn't make sense.

[-] Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 5 months ago

I mean, isn't that also just true of anyone you've interacted with? Their point was that they never "found out" someone they were dating on there was trans, and everyone that dated from those apps who oc every discovered were trans were straightforward about it.

Why would you need or want to be that precise about your language?

[-] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Their point

oh geez, thank you for explaining someone else's point, you must be quite an insider into their thoughts 😂

was that they never “found out”

that is not what was said

why would you need or want to be that precise about your language

you need to be precise with your language because that is what allows us to communicate ideas to each other and logic through arguments, eventually accepting or refuting them.

for example you can call these two strawberry, and nuclear submarine, but it is going to seriously hinder your communication with others, because that is now what is commonly understood under these terms.

you can see it in the comment we are discussing. because i read the implication original commenter tried to make as it never happened to me => it is not a problem that needs to be addressed.

which is incorrect implication in itself, but more importantly, as i pointed out, the premise of the implication is flawed.

[-] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

It's absolutely happened to me. I also don't understand. Maybe the reasoning is, if they get me to invest enough time then maybe I'll suddenly be sexually attracted to penises? I don't know.

[-] Skydancer@pawb.social 19 points 5 months ago

Having known multiple trans people and heard them talk about the arguments for and against early disclosure: Fear.

  1. They may not be public about their status, and fear exposure to family or coworkers seeing their public profile.

  2. They may fear harassment from transphobes. This could range from DM accusations of pedophilia to religious screeds to doxxing to death threats.

  3. They may be trying to avoid "chasers." There are some people for whom a trans body (particularly a transfem body) is a fetish, who don't actually care about the person inside. Plenty of transpeople don't appreciate that kind of attention.

  4. Fear of rejection. They may believe that nobody will respond if they're open about not being cis.

Also two less fear-related (and less common) possibilities:

  1. Ideology. To some people, specifying "transman" or "transwoman" reinforces a social distinction they find invalidating or don't accept. How many profiles have you seen that specify themselves as "cisman" or "ciswoman"? For these people, it's a way of rejecting cisgender normativity.

  2. Maybe they just aren't ready to talk about their genitals yet, or have their first conversation be about their surgical plans or history. Not only can get really repetitive having that be the first conversation with every single match, it means they don't get any of the information they're looking for about a potential partner until much later in the process and have to invest a lot of their own time up front. Just like you want the salient information you care about early on, so do they.

[-] r3df0x@7.62x54r.ru 2 points 5 months ago

#1

If you're not openly trans, then you really shouldn't be dating online because that's a risk.

#3

My sister was open about it and she got creepy Neo Nazis looking for Russian girlfriends.

this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024
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