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Next explain cars
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2024
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Imagine the intensity of narcissistic behavior during the Middle Ages, when some people were superior due to divine birthright. Imagine breeding only with your own extended family to keep the bloodline pure, and thinking that was a natural stroke of brilliant strategizing.
You think the priests and nobles didn't gaslight each other all the time with this framework in place? Now imagine the rest of the population, because being accused of things like heresy and witchcraft seem like the ultimate level of gaslighting.
Thankfully, the invention of the printing press was right around the corner. Then it was only a matter of time before the ideas of men like Newton, Franklin, Voltaire and Rousseau spread like wildfire among the population, and this medieval religious tyranny lost its' monopoly on power.
Thankfully, now we have a system where owners of intangible assets are deemed superior by their inheritance (birthright) and economists gaslight the people who actually work for their money, calling them lazy and not productive enough instead. Its a TOTALLY different thing, we promise.
Humanity found out about gods tragic accident in 1882. So, instead of God, they now worship work and the rich.
Take that God! That'll teach them to be dead on us.
Ah yes, the famous Newtonian peasant revolt
Deciphering the laws of the universe was crucial to bring about The Age Of Enlightenment or Reason, and very much influenced the posture that its' philosophers and political essayists adopted because of the works of men like Kepler, Newton, Descartes, etc.
I thought we were an autonomous collective
You're fooling yourself. We're livin' in a dictatorship, a self-perpetuating autocracy, in which the working class--
At least my comment was committed, it wasn't just a string of pussy jokes.
Oh, there you go, bringing the pussy you don't get into it again--
More like a geriatric snail tbh
If you wanted to be narcisstic in mediaeval times, your best option was to join the clergy so you could swear a vow of celibacy. However, if you were a woman, you were shit out of luck. A narcissistic woman would be called a spinster or a hag for her asexuality.
huh? narcissism =/= asexuality
Nah, Narcissus the Greek guy was asexual. That's what the gods killed him for, for not sexing anyone. That's what narcissism is.
that is not what narcissism is, nor ever was? Man where did you get that info from? Get a refund
Ovid's Metamorphoses.
would you mind giving me a quote then?
I read through the relevant parts and "narcissus is asexual" was certainly not the reading I had, and aside from maybe 2 lines I can't see anyone reading it like that. Majority of the poem focuses on how he's fallen in love with himself, that's his defining trait (and when the reflection couldn't love him back he died of sad). And that has nearly always been what people think when they hear "narcissist": someone in love with themselves above all else
I learned the true meaning of the word from this article: https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/narcissus-wasnt-an-abuser-he-was-queer-15a74e456838
Narcissus only loved himself because one of the incels he rejected prayed to Nemesis and said "let him also love what he cannot have". It was a divine curse. It's not Narcissus' fault what the gods did to him.
from the article
The words of the curse, though slightly different throughout various translations, only say, in essence, "when he falls in love may his love not be returned", none of the translations I've seen imply he's being cursed to fall in love with his reflection. And surely if he was asexual/aromantic the curse would mean fuck all to him right?
This entire interpretation depends on the words of the curse making him fall in love with his reflection, and I have not seen a version where that is what happens. Perhaps original Greek would be enlightening but I don't speak that.
Yes the story isn't the epitome of queer representation seeing as it assumes, at least in my mind, that being an ace is not an option and you're curse-worthy if you don't want to fuck people - but then again his sexuality is not brought up in the story at all. He was a 16 year old boy who's only description we got is "really pretty and likes hunting in the forest". Sure he could've been ace, but he could've also been autistic and missed all the usual neurotypical displays of affection, or maybe he just didn't like how nobody seemed to like him for him and not his body, maybe he himself didn't like anybody in his hometown.
My point is, the "Narcissus is ace" reading of the story is one of many, and sure we can play around with different interpretations and try to see different perspectives, it's all good fun. But friend, you're in a public forum presenting a niche interpretation of a famous story as if everybody was aware of it, and seemingly misinterpreting what the conversation is about overall because of it.
Nobody will say narcissism means asexuality without a supporting block of text to explain their position. When you see the word "narcissist" it's going to mean "obsessed with self", because the word has travelled through centuries and has been codified as such, a niche reading of the story from an ace's perspective isn't going to change that
If someone who uses the word says narcissism means obsession with the self, I'm going to question why exactly they accepted a queerphobic cultural interpretation of an ancient Greek story, and why they don't accept the right of asexuals to not be in a relationship.
👁👄👁 you good?
they probably don't know about a random person's blog where they read a world famous story in a different way than others
what? "why they don't accept the right of asexuals to not be in a relationship" what are you on about??
Well, I'd never read Ovid's Metamorphoses before I read that article. But once I did, I realised there's no other way to read the original story except as aphobic. Everyone regurgitating the same old cliche that narcissism is abusive is just taking the word of aphobes at face value. Reading that article was the first time I thought critically about things, and I see that anybody using narcissism as an insult has never thought critically. And people have a duty to think critically about the queerphobic propaganda that they regurgitate.
Which is why I tell people that Narcissist means asexual and invite them to also think critically.
then I urge you to think critically a little bit more and realise that one reading of an ancient story is not the divine truth of what the story means or tries to convey.
In my reply to the blog's perspective I outlined several different reasons why Narcissus might've not responded to the affection of others. Why are you insistent on him being asexual being the only "correct" interpretation of the story? Are you being ableist by saying that he's not autistic?
Arguing that a story only has one correct reading is not critical thinking, it's foolish at best.
There are many correct readings of Narcissus' identity, but the Greek gods' and people's reaction to him can only be read as aphobia.
I once again urge you to use the critical thinking you've grown so fond of because no.
For all we know exactly one person and one god actually cared about Narcissus's not reciprocating their affection - Echo, and Nemesis, and Nemesis only cared because Echo wanted revenge and well, that's Nemesis's thing after all.
(edit: oh and once again, referring to the wording of the curse, if Narcissus was asexual the curse would not even be a curse for him. The predisposition of said curse is falling in love, if he was ace/aro then that wouldn't even apply)
Do not claim one intepretation to be above all else. "Can only be read" - it can be read as anything the reader reads it as. It can be read as Nemesis being a piece of shit or maybe bored, it can be read as Echo being a misguided victim and that rejection being the last straw for her, it can be read as Narcissus having a severe intellectual disability, it took him several paragraphs to realise the person in the water was his own reflection after all. It can be read as anything.
The only thing that matters is the value we attribute to a specific reading. And although the "Narcissus is asexual" take is an interesting perspective it's incredibly foolish to think people will know that such reading even exists, let alone instinctively understand what you mean, it's just not wildly taught and obscure to the point where when I first attempted to google it the only things I found were broken links. In fact when you first said that asexuality is narcissism I thought you were acephobic, and you implying that asexual people are selfish, it wouldn't even be the first time I saw that argument.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology)
You realize that the word narcissism is not fully encompassing of all aspects of the character in the tale that inspired the word though right?
The word describes self-centeredness on the shallow end and on the deep has a diagnostic aspect for a mental disorder that has nothing to do with sexuallity. Referring to asexual people as narcissistic for not being sexually attracted to people would be considered quite insulting. Look up the dictionary definition or the DSM for the disorder and show me where it mentions asexuality if you can.
wrong guy lol. I'm on your side
Aw damn it.
That’s why the gods turned him into a dildo as a punishment for self-love, and not a flower as punishment for gazing in the mirror.