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62 Democrats Join 207 Republicans in Vote to Conceal Gaza Death Toll
(theintercept.com)
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this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024
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I mean you asked the question, whats your number?
Because Israel has killed 104 as of today.
If Hamas killed 4 on Oct 7, that puts the ratio at 26:1.
Israel estimates that 1200 were killed on Oct 7.
A recent estimate puts Israel at 34,900 killed.
Thats a ratio of about 29:1. Is that acceptable to you?
I'm doing this not because there is any acceptable level, but to highlight the absurdity of the idea that there even is one. Hamas needs to be held accountable for its crimes. Israel needs, at a level about 29 times more so, also needs to be held accountable for their crimes.
The idea that any level of incidental murder is acceptable is absurdist, and you are a terrible person if you think there is one.
To me, if my children or wife had been taken hostage. There would be no limit to the ratio I would be willing to accept to get them back.
Hamas still has hostages captured that day they are tying to use for negotiations.
The difference between my opinion and yours is that you consider it incidental murder, while I consider it a war that Palestinians are losing. War kills people, and acceptable casualties (enemy, friendly, and even innocents) are literally part of the calculations made by every single country that has ever participated in a war.
So then, when about all those people killed in the process. What about the mothers and children dying? The ones that are not directly involved in this fight either. Do their spouses get the chance for the same level of revenge once they’re killed?
Do you not see that inequality and what it does?
Do I should let them take my family with no consequence because they're using human shields?
No, my side is strong enough to get them back. Screw the terrorists and those that harbour them. They can try to retaliate, and they can die until they won't fight back anymore.
People these days seem to think there's a diplomatic solution for everything. They need to go read a nonfiction history book, because they are currently in the fiction section.
What if you were born in the wrong place and your family got gunned down or buried under rubble because the enemy thought a hostage (or their dead body) was in a building at the end of your street?
You can’t always assume you’re the one who is both on a righteous quest and in possession of superior firepower.
His statement is beyond telling. To him, everyone is a terrorist, so none of them matter.
Life isn't fair.
There isn't some sort of right to fairness.
Yep. I see that as a reason to treat people with grace and compassion, especially the innocent and disadvantaged.
And just to be clear, actual terrorists are in no way innocents. That is not who I am talking about. Nor am I arguing for pacifism.
Well, the biggest problem with this situation and using the term "innocent" is that the vast majority of Gazans support Hamas and supported the attack on Oct 7th.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/#:~:text=JERUSALEM%2C%20Dec%2013%20(Reuters),respected%20Palestinian%20polling%20institute%20found.
72% support for the attack.
I don't consider those people innocent.
TheReS nO diPloMAtiC SoluTiOn, thErE’S onLy M U R D E R
What's the diplomatic solution? Give in to terrorists and let them attack again?
That's exactly what happened in Ukraine with Crimea and we've all seen how that turned out.
These groups both want the same land. Somebody has to not get their way.
And how many hostages does Israel have? Do Palestinians not have the same right, that if their family has been taken hostage, to do anything to get them back?
You dont get it. Its clear that you dont get it.
They get it, but they believe that some lives are less important than others. When someone holds that position I haven't found an argument to convince them otherwise.
Exactly. This is the fundamental lesson you (the royal "you"; as 'one') needed to learn from BLM. The history and legacy of settler colonialism and white supremacy leaves us with inherent and structural biases that means some "lives" are valued higher than others.
When you attack someone stronger than you, it usually does not end well. They can try, but there will be further consequences.
It took a few hundred thousand middle eastern civilians dying after 9/11 before anyone started complaining and even that did not lead to this level of protest.
People are ok with violence if its their country that has been attacked.
Explaining this to the Israeli shipping companies currently bottlenecked in the Suez by Houthi rebels.
The first thing I'd do is find a dozen people of the same ethnicity as the hostage taker and kill them. Then I'd send in a strike team to grab anyone I believed was affiliated with the hostage taker - coworkers, family members, social media contacts - and imprison them indefinitely. Finally, I'd bulldoze someone's house. Doesn't really matter whose. Just to show people I mean business.
I'm reminded of this old Thomas Friedman quote.