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it's a big deal jack
(lemmy.cafe)
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this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2024
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This whole night was so many layers of exhausting, but probably not for the reasons you think... No rational, serious person was expecting Biden to Willy Wonka front somersault into this debate? it was going to be what this was, the only true surprise was probably the volume of his voice (which they chalk up to a cold, okay fine, I guess) and actually how well he did quickly processing and responding to trump's gish gallop and unchecked stream of consciousness mistruth firehose with little help from the impotent moderators for the majority of the night.
The people in this country, in their immediate reaction to this debate, demonstrate that they just fundamentally lack the focus, empathv and frankly basic intelligence to process the substance of this or any debate. On average, we respond solely to voice pitch, tonality, body language and facial expressions, like a still developing toddler... Or a dog.
You wouldn’t believe how close you are.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/voters-use-child-like-judgments-when-judging-political-candidates
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-look-of-a-winner/
(first article again)
I don’t know if you missed the part where he brought up “rapist immigrants” when trying to answer a question about abortion that should have been a layup and was absolutely key to this debate being meaningful to voters who are confused, apathetic, or considering voting 3rd party, especially those in swing states.
That was also very unexpected, highly disappointing, and totally unrelated to his tone or volume. No amount of moderation could have helped that.
That's part of the point, the gettable "swing voter", who was hanging on this debate and nothing else to get their confidence just isn't real... If that was the case, why didn't the fucking SOTU seal it for them (again that's if they even exist, as I challenge your basic premise).
People generally know where they stand, with these two especially. And if they do exist and they are truly that "confused"... They are actually just ashamed to be 98% trump leaning and just waiting for any strong fart to push them towards him with " justification' ( if it wasn't this, they would have sought something to fill that need between now and election).
I don’t think any swing voter is “gettable” or “hanging on this debate” though. Pretty significant misrepresentation of my position there so hope this helps. Lot of time till November.
I do, however, believe there are a) left leaning voters in swing states who are turned off from voting blue by the Democrat defense of Israel and capitulation to the conservative framing of the border, and b) right leaning voters in swing states who see that Biden brings up immigration in order to support his abortion position and feel hugely vindicated and double down on their intent to vote MAGA.
Maybe I shouldn’t have used the term “swing voter,” I’ll to back and edit that.
IMO there's also a contingent of people who are demotivated to participate. Lack of participation hurts Biden more than trump.
Despite the danger, Trump doesn't feel like an imminent threat to most people. He's not motivating enough alone to bring out Democratic voters. However you do have a bunch of shit demotivating those voters. Gaza, money, immigration. The only big motivator is abortion, and Biden kinda flubbed that.
A Dem win will be on abortion alone at this point, unless something huge changes.
People were expecting state of the union Biden. Instead we got Magoo. We don't need a strong man to lead, we just need more than what Biden currently is. The DNC is out to fucking lunch and probably handed Trump an easy win. Does this stop me from eating a shit sandwich to help protect our democracy? No, will angrily eat that shit sandwich for a few more good years.
The presidency is not one person, it's an entire administration and general philosophy. We're fed a lie that these debates always matter, they matter when candidates are unknown and then have a forum to stand out as leaders and educate voters about a vision for the country. That's NOT the case here, the candidates are wholly known entities and these fucking debates absolutely do not matter.
The president is the leader of their presidency not the other way round. This debate has been very important to showcase that Biden is not capable of leading an argument let alone his staff. It's not too late for him to bow out with dignity and get someone who has wit to lead.
Genuinely curious, what do you think the Biden admin has accomplished in the last 4 years?
You having to ask that is telling, isn't it?
Ha... Yes it's very telling, but [Whoooossshh] it's actually telling about how tuned in you are beyond the basic surface talking points you absorb through social media - the Biden admin needs to do A LOT more and Gaza response is indefensible, while at the very same time, they are technically on paper the SINGLE most progressive administration of my lifetime.
I'm not going to lie, your reply there was priceless. It was the equivalent of the arrogant, condescending, puffed up tone saying, "psssh, I already told you idiots... I don't know how to read?" it's like, you really think you're looking down on people, while looking up at them from the ground. Golly.
I think you're mistaking that this election is determined by facts. It's not. It's a populist election driven on how people feel. I get your determination and frustration but you I think you need to reevaluate your strategy here.
The good side, if you can call it that, is that because they lack the focus they also don't remember shit. If Biden has a good performance in the future this will be forgotten about.
Hopefully, but the focus on "performance" in a stage moment, versus performance in the job done (collective accomplishment of the administration over the last 4 years) is core to the problem here. Oh well.
His record is pretty good. The problem is he's terrible at communicating that.
Welcome to leadership 101. Projecting confidence is 90 percent of getting people to listen to you. This is why Con Artists are effective and Military Leaders cultivate an air of Stoicism. If you're lucky you find a confident person who informs their decisions with science.
I think we all labour under the misapprehension that the person delivering the performance has correctly read the room.
I agree with everything but the comment on the moderators. It's not their job to hold the candidates to account, that's the job of the dude standing right next to the speaker. If a presidential candidate needs to rely upon a journalist to correct disinformation in a debate that he himself is participating in, they shouldn't be the candidate.
I'm a smooth-brained imbecile, but everytime that Trump opened his mouth I had 14 better responses than Biden had. He permitted the most outlandish untruths to go on the record unchecked. Biden would have done a better job by just replying "bulls*hit" in answer to Trump's ramblings. The moderators just ask questions. They are not supposed to prop either side up.