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this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2024
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Stewart is basically calling for a primary, which we already had, which was known for years ahead of time would happen, which literally anybody could run in, and yet nobody significant seemed interested in running. I voted in the primary, there was more than one person to vote for, Biden even lost his primary in American Samoa. To say there was "no primary" is a lie, and suggesting a party swap out a candidate who already won a primary, and by doing so throw out the votes of millions of Americans who participated in that primary process, is anti-democatic. Do you want people to switch parties and vote in the republican primary? Because that's how you do it. Did the DNC learn nothing from getting caught trying to crush Bernie's primary chances?
You lose voters you disenfranchise, period. I don't care how good the DNC's legislative aims are, if my primary vote literally does not matter, why would I ever vote in their primary again?
...which was also canceled in many states, which you conveniently leave out. Biden was not elected, he is simply the incumbent. His candidacy does not reflect the will of the voters and you know it. The denial needs to stop.
The only reason someone would be advocating for Biden at this point is they want a Trump presidency. Biden cannot win.
Not with that attitude.
It has nothing to do with attitude. Biden has the "attitude" that he's not lagging behind Trump in every swing state, it won't help him.
I'm sorry but in what way does all this bitching in Lemmy comments make any positive difference? Vote for Biden or get the fascist, that is your only choice here. Am I happy about it? No, I didn't even want Biden back in 16. But that's how it is. That's reality. Maybe you should accept that instead of expecting something to change in July. Unless of course you are trying to demotivate people from voting so we not only get Trump but everything down ballot goes to the fascists too.
Genuine question: who specifically was prevented from running against Biden during the primaries this cycle? Which candidate reflects the will of the voters in your opinion?
Everyone, and Bernie. If we're going to have an ancient white guy running the country it might as well be the popular one.
This is why I can't take this shit seriously. It's just nonsense completely detached from reality.
Says the person who keeps asking the same question over and over again as if the inability to read the answers given is some kind of "gotcha" that will magically make Biden popular.
Well, myself (and the other people asking this same question) don't get an answer, and when we do it's either false on it's face or just more conjecture (which ALSO isn't backed up).
Someone gave me an actual answer and we ended up having a nice conversation where I got some new information that softened my position a bit.
If you don't want to have the discussion that's fine. But you can't claim that "everyone and Bernie" was prevented from running in the Democratic primary this election and act like I'm the one being obtuse. Apologies if I was being a dick, that was wrong of me.
I agree with most of the criticism of Biden, but all the misinformation being spread around to try and manipulate people into lessening support for Biden isnt helpful, doesn't win the Democratic candidate any votes, and doesn't take a single vote from Trump. He's not going to step aside without a plan to beat Trump in November, and no one has one yet. There's no serious person saying "I can beat Trump, give me the ball". If/when that happens I will throw my full support behind them.
My view is that politicians are tools, they are not personalities. I just want the person who will most serve my interests to win. If I urgently need a hammer to nail something and the only tool available is a screwdriver, I'm going to bash that shit with a screwdriver until it gets the job done or a hammer becomes available.
We didn't have a primary. Dean Phillips was the only real Democrat challenging Biden, he wasn't on the ballot in half the states, and he was run out of the party for challenging the incumbent. They forced him to step down from leadership, they got someone to primary him for his house seat, and he's now dropped out of politics.
But let's ignore that for a minute. The administration and the DNC also kept Biden's decline from the public. They carefully manipulated his public appearances to make sure his mental state wasn't fully known until he was on a debate stage with Trump. The voters were defrauded. The result of that fraud is that we are saddled with a candidate that cannot win. Demanding the DNC fix this colossal fuck-up so we have a shot of winning isn't just fair, it's the only reasonable course of action at this point.
Do you remember the special investigator's report into Biden keeping classified documents? They said Biden legitimately had a really bad memory at the time forgetting many important life events, and the Biden campaign then tried having them change it and then Biden claimed executive privilege over the tapes? The Biden campaign literally used executive privilege to try to prevent Biden's memory issues from becoming public.
Yup. They tried to convince us that it was a partisan hit-job. Now they're trying to convince us what we saw wasn't real.
Philips was even more centrist than Biden, but he at least was willing to step up himself when he couldn't recruit anyone else to challenge Biden for being too old. This very circumstance was the whole reason he ran.
Yeah, The Lever podcast had a really good interview with his campaign manager. They covered why he got into the race and how the DNC fucked him (and generally squash primary challengers). I'm not a fan of centrists, so I wouldn't have voted for him, but what he was trying to do was admirable.
To say there WAS a primary is a lie, the other credible candidates were forced out. Claiming that a coronation is a primary is how you lose voters.
Which candidate(s) were forced out?
Anyone? Or are we just going to downvote anyone asking for evidence that there "was no primary" when there very clearly was one.
It'd be perfectly reasonable to say something has changed and we need to reassess Biden as the candidate. You're not doing that, you're lying about the process to try and get people mad because you think that will motivate them. There was a primary. No one serious ran against Joe Biden. This was not just a Biden/DNC decision. All those better candidates people are suggesting also made the same exact calculation.
I mean, I've answered this so many times that I'm copy-pasting at this point, but the answer is Dean Phillips. He was the only real Democrat challenging Biden, he was kept off the ballot in half the states, and he was run out of the party for challenging the incumbent. They forced him to step down from leadership, they got someone to primary him for his house seat, and he's not running for reelection. He even encouraged other members of Congress to join him in running so their could be a real primary, but no one else was brave enough to do it, and for good cause; he was literally forced out of Congress for challenging Biden.
And in the states where he qualified and was in the ballot? How badly did he beat Biden?
This is what I'm getting at. Alllllll those other better candidates made the CHOICE not to oppose Biden. They weren't prevented from doing so, they just came to a different conclusion than you did. No one stopped Gretchen Witmer from getting ballot access and running a primary campaign. No one stopped Josh Shapiro from running a primary campaign. Hell Biden wasn't even on the ballot in NH and he still beat Phillips. There is no serious candidate who wanted a shot and wasn't given one. They all had a shot, and they all said "not this time".
Gonna need a source on this one. He stepped down from leadership because he didn't agree with the rest of the caucus on issues. I've seen absolutely nothing claiming he's not running for reelection because the party forced him out. Are there any votes, statements, etc you could point to here?
His presidential campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, did an interview on The Lever where he talked about how the DNC controls the primaries to protect the incumbent President, and he goes into more detail on the rat-fucking they gave Phillips. It aired on July 1st, and it should be available on whatever your preferred podcast platform is. This is twice now that you've made me answer things you could have learned on your own, so I'm gonna ask you to be responsible for your own ignorance going forward.
I asked for a source to a claim YOU made. It's not my job to make your arguments for you. Maybe be prepared to back up your claims and not be an asshole about it? I'm going to watch the interview, and if there's a case to be made I'm more than happy to reevaluate what I've said.
You also demanded to know which candidates were forced out, left a snitty reply when you didn't get an answer, then gave combative answers to the only two people who did bother to answer you. The retaliatory nature of the DNC isn't exactly a secret, nor is the control they try to exert over the primary process, so you could find information on this yourself. I have to assume you either haven't done any research or just don't want to know.
You know what, that's fair. I was being a bit of an asshole and I apologize. I'm listening to that Sirota/Weaver interview now, thanks for the recommendation.
We still disagree but I don't think we're enemies so there's no point in attacking each other. I'll let you know my thoughts when I finish the podcast.
I honestly looked for statements from Phillips and Williamson prior to you linking that interview. I did not think to look for his campaign manager, Phillips has been relatively quiet.
Fair enough, sorry if I was a prick too.
Yeah no one would commit political suicide to run against the incumbent unless they had been obviously out of it as Biden appears to be going. So yes it was a DNC decision as they would go after those who tried to run.
And even with it being an uncontested primary the administration still attacked those doing protest votes in it over their handling of Palestinians.
Yeah, that's how it works. You have to BEAT the incumbent. That's literally what primaries are for. No one beat him, and the ones who tried failed.
That's bullshit. There was not one debate, Biden didn't even campaign, and now we know why; because the Biden campaign was deliberately obfuscating his condition until the "primary" was over. If they hadn't lied to the voters, the primary would have actually happened and maybe looked a lot different.
Edit: and since when has the DNC cared about the will of the voters? They clearly haven't given two shits about that since at least '16. Why suddenly care about it now unless it's a bad faith argument?
There was effectively no primary -- no legitimate other candidate was on the ballot in my state -- because they fed us the impression that Biden was totally fine cognitively.
And then the debate happened. There was no realistic way anybody but Joe Biden came out of this primary, and I think that in itself is pretty anti-democratic.
Not that any of it matters in the end, because Biden is not going to step aside and I don't think Democrats have the power to push him to the side.
Exactly. When one primary candidate won in 2016, the party nominated the other candidate. Your primary vote doesn't matter. SCOTUS even agreed with you, stating that if one doesn't like how private organizations run their primaries then they shouldn't participate in them.
Why would anyone ever vote in the primary again?
Are you talking about Bernie? He literally got less primary votes, thats why he lost, period. I agree the DNC tried to fuck him over, but at the end of the day he got less votes and that's all there is to it. If Bernie's voters were as vote-happy as they were loud, he would have been the winner of the primary.
They implemented a number of reforms after Wikileaks exposed their corrupt practices, their primary system is more fair and robust than it was in 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Reforms_since_2016
It must be noted that the same people who told me that Bernie was too old in 2016 are now telling me that Biden is fine.
Also, that’s not even the thing that’s most concerning. The thing that’s most concerning is that Biden doesn’t appear to understand that if he loses, we probably also lose democracy. But that’s ok because he’ll have tried his goodest.
I dunno man. That sounds a hell of a lot like malarkey to me.
Lol, you saying Biden will have tried his goodest here cracks me up. Only the Lord Almighty can save us from Biden.
Bernie got fewer votes, but it was the result of blatant cheating. So its much more correct to say he was the rightful winner of it, especially considering that he would have beaten trump (according to polls). So he was a better representation of both the will of the people had there not been meddling, and the greater good for the left.
DNC knew this too. They knew Bernie was polling better. The DNC said we don't care about what our voters want, we know better, and if you don't pledge to our candidate then we'll convince our cult members that you're a Trump supporter.
Source and quote?
The SCOTUS stated that Bernie got more votes?