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Ocasio-Cortez Loses the Democratic Socialists’ Endorsement Over Israel
(www.nytimes.com)
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this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
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politics
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Cool. If you pull back your endorsement of someone who is already one of the most aligned representatives of the fucking country with your agenda because you want her to go even further, why the everloving fuck do you think anyone will ever choose to align with you? You're an unreliable ally who punishes your supposed allies for getting nearer your position, and empowering people who are MUCH further away from your (very much non-majority and non-plurality) position. Do you really not see how fucking counterproductive that is?
But hey, since when have little concerns like "This is actually putting a corporate stooge in power" or even "This will lead to fascism winning" ever bothered Left purists? They aren't the ones who suffer.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Is she? Show me. Show me how she is working for and supporting the policies that DSA is working for.
You realize your opinions are just a long series of mistaken views that don't predict future states of the world right? Like, you have this hyperbolic reaction to things that you're views don't align with, but your views don't predict the future. We've covered this. You should consider that your political calculus is just bad and maybe you should open up your view.
You have fun doing your best to welcome fascism with open arms and assist corporate cronies into power. I forgot that your opposition to Biden wasn't because you didn't think he could win, it was because you'd oppose any Democrat actually on the ticket for being insufficiently pure.
Preach.
God, it's just... it's a game to these people, where they win or lose. While the rest of us are trying to fucking survive and ensure as many others survive as possible. To them, any imperfection is a loss; fuck the totality of the results. I mean, fucking AOC and Bernie? For Christ's sake. It's not enough that these self-professed leftists vote for blowing our fucking brains out, they have to backstab some of the only vaguely left members of this fucking country's legislature for being "Pro-Palestine, but not Pro-Palestine ENOUGH".
And they wonder why no one in power wants to fucking work with them.
If Trump does win, they'll be VERY surprised when they end up rounded up
Most of them won't be rounded up. They're LARPers. The rest of us will have to suffer because they want to play games with fascists.
Most of your comments here boil down to lame ad hominems and you wonder why people don't take you seriously?
Thats just not true. PugJesus is an ad-hominem machine and ya'll are as dense as yesterdays oatmeal when it comes to politics.
I made a point about how both Bernie and AOC have shifted politically and @pugjesus couldn't not do a personal attack. But once they does, gloves are off, because he's actually a fucking idiot when it comes to politics. Like literally couldn't distinguish his ass hole from a hole in the ground. Dont fucking hire them for your campaign: you will fucking lose. His opinions don't predict future states of the world. And they knows that. If you want to do politics and do it well, you have to be on the right side of things to begin with. Being a jonny-come-lately gets you nothing.
Take it back to the article. The DSA is an organization of idealistic socialists. OF COURSE they would rescind their endorsement. She hasn't show sufficient support, and so what if you think that doesn't matter. Its fine that you think that doesn't matter. But you aren't DSA. The point is that it matters for the DSA, an organization that made a huge fucking difference in getting her elected when it mattered and she had no power: 2018.
This inability for people to separate their identity from what happens in the world around them is why you are all so fucking bad at this.
Did the comment I replied to not say "Dude you are a fucking idiot."? It's still undeleted in your profile.
You just can't help yourself can you? A year of having a wildly mistaken understanding of the political calculus around Joe Biden and what it takes for Democrats to win, putting out a view point and a particular rhetoric that was objectively helping Trump to victory; then the most minor of admonitions on your part that you were wildly in the wrong. But obviously zero introspection on your part as to why you were in the wrong. Have you considered why you were so wildly in the wrong as long as you were, to the point of basically costing the Democrats the ability to win any house of power in 2024?
We're talking about AOC and the DSA, and I'm making some specific points about how to wield political power and what it takes to stay "in" power when the "team" you are on would rather not have you. You, like some one who has no fucking clue what they are talking about, decide to make it personal and just go on the attack. Brother. You have the political calculus of a naked mole rat. Like, the beliefs you have around politics aren't useful for predicting what will happen.
You and many others here seem have attached your identity to a specific political team. And when that team gets criticized, you imagine yourself to be personally under attack. You (and many others here) can't separate your identities. Maybe its because you are older, and haven't spent the time to self-actualize and have that independent identity; maybe you are younger and haven't had the opportunity. Maybe you have no real experience in politics or campaigning or institution building. Maybe you've never read on or studied power, how it manifests, and how it is wielded to great or little effect. Regardless, you obviously have significant work to do to train your understanding of the world to the point where the beliefs and things you think predict future states of the world, which, in my personal belief system, is the entire point.
I put probably close to 3000 volunteer hours into squad/ squad adjacent campaigns. I've run political organizations, for years. I've worked directly with politicians as an outside organization. If you, as a political organization, can't withhold your endorsement/ power: you have none. And when you are charged with managing/ growing/ building a movement; building power is your entire job. If AOC isn't going to be on the right side of DSA, and they endorse her anyways, the DSA loses all power in the relationship and suffers (likely falls apart) as an organization.
This is literally the identical rhetoric you used for almost a year to argue that we shouldn't question Biden's fitness for office.
Yes, and under the same reasoning. I made it very clear that my turn on Biden was because he has lost the confidence of the party which is a danger to his ability to win against fascism that would be alleviated somewhat by choosing another candidate now. My goal is to NOT GO UNDER A FASCIST REGIME THIS NOVEMBER. A radical position, I know, though, obviously, not nearly radical enough to meet your approval. Likewise, your argument is the same as it's always been - "Letting fascism win is Good, Actually, because it shows the world how influential we are! Ha ha, take that, LIBERALS!"
See, what someone with an informed political calculus would have done, would have been to support criticism of the incumbent and demand a proper competitive primary 10 months ago while we still had lots and lots of time and bandwidth for it.
If your views only make sense looking backwards, your views don't make sense.
You should really consider listening to those whose views predict future states of the world, and weighting their opinions more highly than your own, until you've adjusted your calculus sufficiently such that your views predict future states of the world.
Basically, you were wrong, are wrong, and will continue to be wrong until you begin to adjust your thinking.
Oh, someone with an informed political calculus would never have said "The historical advantages of having an incumbent and the disadvantages of a contested primary against the incumbent, which signals a lack of confidence in the candidate beyond what an ordinary primary entails, mean that the best choice is the current incumbent, since he has already declared he is running." Of course not. What person with informed political calculus looks at stupid things like 'past trends' or 'current polling'?
My view changed because the information available to me changed. I called heads and it was tails. I fucked up. You seem convinced because I fucked up that I'm ready to change my view from "Stopping fascism is good, actually" to "Fascism is okay if it we can show those LIBERALS who's boss!"
Fucking what.
What the fuck is that even supposed to mean.
Yes, you did. Repeatedly and loudly, while calling everyone who was absolutely right fascists.
Just like you're doing now.
Its so much more than that. Its that you had a wildly wrong opinion, an opinion that functionally hurt our ability to stop Trump. You had all the information you needed to make the right assessment, but your entire goal with your rhetoric was to shut down any kind of conversation that would allow for that right assessment to be made. It was fucking disgusting and it still is.
What it means, is that if your views only predict previous states of the universe but don't generalize to new states of the universe, we should ignore you.
"Wow, I think that maybe the actual data might be correct, and that the 'Biden Senile!' line that's been repeated for the past 4 years and not shown itself to be anything but typical GOP barking probably isn't correct; clearly the fact that I made the wrong decision in that light means I should throw away the idea that stopping fascism is bad, and embrace hope that if enough of America licks boots for long enough, they'll get tired of the taste and spontaneously spawn socialist movements across the country!"
And how the fuck are you supposed to determine that BEFORE new states of the universe come about? Do you... do you think prophecy is real or something? Like, this is materialism 101, I shouldn't have to explain this to anyone not trying to cast spells to cure their ailing grandmother - adjusting one's views in the face of new information is how solid theory is formed; that IS how theories advance to the point of being able to predict future events, it doesn't just come fucking birthed into a wunderkind's mind by the blessed seed of knowledge of the universe.
Its that your model of the universe is wrong and you dont seem to care. You only care if it predicts in reverse, which is functionally useless.
Okay, so you didn't read what I said, or didn't understand it. That's alright. You keep casting spells, I'm sure this whole 'hypothesis-action-analysis-revision' cycle is a passing fad.
Its about weighting. You take in many many opinions and you weight those where the prior maps more correctly to the posterior, then take the average. Weights can be positive or negative, and might be useful in either case. Its why I stick with dunces like you. I can apply a negative multiplier to your expressed opinions about what will happen and it better informs my prediction of future states.
I can basically take your view, look at whatever the opposite of it is, and use that to predict the future.
lol
Amen
Becasue “someone with an informed political calculus would have chosen to not vote at all, right?
How can you say shit like this, and then suggest that not voting will bring change?
The perfect example of talking a lot and saying nothing.
No one agrees with you. And you are working against your own goals and interests.