191
CrowdStrike Isn't the Real Problem
(lemmy.world)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2024
191 points (76.5% liked)
Technology
59648 readers
1877 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
A decade ago I worked for a regional chain of gyms with locations in 4 states.
I was in TN. When a system would go down in SC or NC, we originally had three options:
I got sick of this. So I researched options and found an open source software solution called FOG. I ran a server in our office and had little optiplex 160s running a software client that I shipped to each club. Then each machine at each club was configured to PXE boot from the fog client.
The server contained images of every machine we commonly used. I could tell FOG which locations used which models, and it would keep the images cached on the client machines.
If everything was okay, it would chain the boot to the os on the machine. But I could flag a machine for reimage and at next boot, the machine would check in with the local FOG client via PXE and get a complete reimage from premade images on the fog server.
The corporate office was physically connected to one of the clubs, so I trialed the software at our adjacent club, and when it worked great, I rolled it out company wide. It was a massive success.
So yes, I could completely reimage a computer from hundreds of miles away by clicking a few checkboxes on my computer. Since it ran in PXE, the condition of the os didn’t matter at all. It never loaded the os when it was flagged for reimage. It would even join the computer to the domain and set up that locations printers and everything. All I had to tell the low-tech gymbro sales guy on the phone to do was reboot it.
This was free software. It saved us thousands in shipping fees alone. And brought our time to fix down from days to minutes.
There ARE options out there.
This works great for stationary pcs and local servers, does nothing for public internet connected laptops in hands of users.
The only fix here is staggered and tested updates, and apparently this update bypassed even deffered update settings that crowdstrike themselves put into their software.
The only winning move here was to not use crowdstrike.
It also assumes that reimaging is always an option.
Yes, every company should have networked storage enforced specifically for issues like this, so no user data would be lost, but there's often a gap between should and "has been able to find the time and get the required business side buy in to make it happen".
Also, users constantly find new ways to do non-standard, non-supported things with business critical data.
Isn't this just more of what caused the problem in the first place? Namely, centralisation. If you store data locally and you lose a machine, that's bad but not the end of the world. If you store it centrally and you lose the data, that's catastrophic. Nassim Taleb nailed this stuff. Keep the downside limited, and the upside unlimited or as he says, "Don't pick up pennies in front of a steamroller."
Absolutely. 100%
But don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. A fix that gets you 40% of the way there is still 40% less work you have to do by hand. Not everything has to be a fix for all situations. There’s no such thing as a panacea.
Sure. At the same time one needs to manage resources.
I was all in on laptop deployment automation. It cut down on a lot of human error issues and having inconsistent configuration popping up all the time.
But it needs constant supervision, even if not constant updates. More systems and solutions lead to neglect if not supplied well. So some "would be good to have" systems just never make the cut, because as overachieving I am, I'm also don't want to think everything is taken care of when it clearly isn't.
Yeah. I find a base image and post-install config with group policy or Ansible to be far more reliable.
Yea we're doing something similiar. Only update base images for bigger OS updates or if something breaks or can break.
The general idea is to have config that works for both new PCs and the ones that are already in use. Saves on maintaining two configuration methods.
You were all in, but was the company all in? How many employees? It sounds like you innovated. Let's say that the company you worked for was spending millions on vendors that promised solutions but rarely delivered. If instead they gave you $400k a year, a $1 million/year budget & 10 employees.. I'm guessing you could have managed the laptop deployment automation, along with some other significant projects as well.
Instead though, people with good ideas, even loyal to the company, are competing against sales and marketing reps from billion dollar companies, and upper management are easily swooned.
I'm the only one to swoon here, and I'm as sceptical as one can be.
I'm also a cost and my budget is on paper only. Non-IT management is complicit in crappy IT.
Completely fair, man.
Almost all computers can be set to PXE boot, but work laptops usually even have more advanced remote management capabilities. You ask the employee to reboot the laptop and presto!
I wonder how you're supposed to get PXE boot to work securely over the internet. And how that helps when affected disk is still encrypted and needs unusual intervention to fix, including admin access to system files.
I've been doing this for a while, and I like creative solutions, so I wonder about those issues a lot. Not much comes to my mind besides let's recall all the laptops and do it one by one.
From a home user? Probably ain’t shit-all you can do with PXE booting. But if you have a field office or somewhere a user can go with a hardware vpn appliance? Well now you’re in business.
Hypothectically you could ship a company provided router to handle the vpn connection to your remote users, so you aren't relying on the OS to be able to boot up to get connected to the vpn for the company network and PXE environment. Lots of extra cost and mess though.
PXE boot is more of last resort IMO, but can be uses as a chainloader to a more secure option. The biggest challenge I could see security-wise is having PXE boot being ran on unsecured networks. Even then though, normally a computer will have been provisioned on a secure network and will have encryption and secure boot-based encryption, and some additional signature-based image verification.
This is a good solution for these types of scenarios. Doesn't fit all though. Where I work, 85% of staff work from home. We largely use SaaS. I'm struggling to think of a good method here other than walking them through reinstalling windows on all their machines.
That’s still 15% less work though. If I had to manually fix 1000 computers, clicking a few buttons to automatically fix 150 of them sounds like a sweet-ass deal to me even if it’s not universal.
You could also always commandeer a conference room or three and throw a switch on the table. “Bring in your laptop and go to conference room 3. Plug in using any available cable on the table and reboot your computer. Should be ready in an hour or so. There’s donuts and coffee in conference room 4.” Could knock out another few dozen.
Won’t help for people across the country, but if they’re nearish, it’s not too bad.
Not a lot of nearish. It would be pretty bad if this happened here.
or
I had no idea you could remotely configure pxe to reboot into a recovery image and run a script. How do you do this?
Fuck yeah. Even better than reimage. That’s creative as fuck and I love it.
Now your fog servers are dead. What now
How removed from IT are that you think fog would have helped here?
How would it not have? You got an office or field offices?
“Bring your computer by and plug it in over there.” And flag it for reimage. Yeah. It’s gonna be slow, since you have 200 of the damn things running at once, but you really want to go and manually touch every computer in your org?
The damn thing’s even boot looping, so you don’t even have to reboot it.
I’m sure the user saved all their data in one drive like they were supposed to, right?
I get it, it’s not a 100% fix rate. And it’s a bit of a callous answer to their data. And I don’t even know if the project is still being maintained.
But the post I replied to was lamenting the lack of an option to remotely fix unbootable machines. This was an option to remotely fix nonbootable machines. No need to be a jerk about it.
But to actually answer your question and be transparent, I’ve been doing Linux devops for 10 years now. I haven’t touched a windows server since the days of the gymbros. I DID say it’s been a decade.
Because your imaging environment would also be down. And you’re still touching each machine and bringing users into the office.
Or your imaging process over the wan takes 3 hours since it’s dynamically installing apps and updates and not a static “gold” image. Imaging is then even slower because your source disk is only ssd and imaging slows down once you get 10+ going at once.
I’m being rude because I see a lot of armchair sysadmins that don’t seem to understand the scale of the crowdstike outage, what crowdstrike even is beyond antivirus, and the workflow needed to recover from it.
FOG ran on Linux. It wouldn’t have been down. But that’s beside the point.
I never said it was a good answer to CrowdStrike. It was just a story about how I did things 10 years ago, and an option for remotely fixing nonbooting machines. That’s it.
I get you’ve been overworked and stressed as fuck this last few days. I’ve been out of corporate IT for 10 years and I do not envy the shit you guys are going through right now. I wish I could buy you a cup of coffee or a beer or something.
Last time I used fog it was only doing static image deployment which has been out of style for a while. I don’t know if there are any serious deployment products for windows enterprise that don’t run on windows.
I’m personally not dealing with this because I didn’t like how Crowdstrike had answered a number of questions in their sales call.
Avoiding telling me their vuln scan doesn’t prob be all hosts after claiming it could replace a real vuln scanner, claiming they are somehow better than others at malware detection without bringing up 3rd party tests, claiming how their product was novel when others have been doing the same for 7+ years.
My fave was them telling me how much easier it is to manage but no one on the call had ever worked as a sysadmin or even seen how their competition works.
Shitshow. I’m so glad this happened so I can block their sales team.
Imaging environment down? If a sysadmin can't figure out how to boot a machine into recovery to remove the bad update file then they have bigger problems. The fix in this instance wasn't even re-imaging machines. It was merely removing a file. Ideal DR scenario would have a recovery image already on the system that can be booted into remotely, so there is minimal strain on the network. Furthermore, we don't live in dial-up age anymore.
Imaging environment would be bitlocker’d with its key stuck in AD which is also bitlocker’d.
Only if you're not practicing 3-2-1 with your backups.
Backup environment is also bitlocker’d.
Then you didn't 3-2-1, because you should be able to restore from your alternate format, e.g. tape, without your existing infrastructure. Ideally your second and offsite copies are also offline, so even if you ignored the separate media rule, it wouldn't have been affected by the crowdstrike update.
Ultimately, nobody should have to tell you not to lock your keys in the car.
Thank you for sharing this. This is what I'm talking about. Larger companies not utilizing something like this already are dysfunctional. There are no excuses for why it would take them days, weeks or longer.