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Both sides!
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2024
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Why does Hamas exist?
What are the reasons driving Hamas vs Israel?
Don't care.
Do. Not. Murder. Civilians. It's a very simple rule.
Gotcha, so because Israel has murdered far more civilians both in total and as a ratio of the total killed by each side, Israel is the greater of two evils, and the direct creator of the other evil.
I mean sure, in a "killed more people" way. Both are unacceptable though.
It's why the great majority of the conversation is about stopping Israel. It's about harm reduction, and Israel is doing the most harm by far. They need to be stopped. Stopping Hamas takes a back seat to that, practically speaking.
But do not make the mistake of thinking Hamas is the good guy just because they oppose Israel. They're terrible too. Sure, they're a monster that Israel created, but they're still a monster.
When, exactly, did I say this? There are good groups within Palestine like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, sure, but they are unfortunately not the group in power. What we are left with is an existing situation:
Hamas is the major group Palestinians support against Israel, and Isreal and the IDF are against Palestinians.
We also have historical context:
Israel is a settler-colonial apartheid regime that has murdered Palestinians and stolen their land for the greater part of a century, and has thus fostered hatred against itself.
We know the origin of these issues: Israel. We therefore know the direction of the solution: dissolution of the Israeli State into a One State Solution for Palestinians and Israeli's alike, with Minority Protections.
Anything else is moralism and pandering.
It is perfectly possible to protest Israel's genocide of Palestinians without spray painting pro-Hamas slogans or holding Hamas flags, which is what the protesters that Harris condemned did. She very specifically called out the pro-Hamas and antisemites among the protesters, not the ones simply calling for an end to the genocide.
As I said at the beginning of this tangent, fuck Israel, but fuck Hamas too. Calling out Hamas supporters is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and is not a mark against Harris.
Again, you are drawing far too much importance on the optics of condemnation and support, and no importance whatsoever on Material Realities and conditions. Is Harris moving in favor of ending all US support for Israel, putting a stop to the genocide? No, and she won't, and as such we recontextualize her statements. She is very deliberately maintaining the Party Line.
So why did you bring up her statements if they don't matter?
Yes. And the party line is to disapprove of Israel but not directly oppose them.
The optics don't matter.
Finger wagging in public, handing guns and bombs in private, got it.
I didn't say I agreed with it, but that's the line she's walking.
"Ah ok fair enough. I'd still say "support" is a strong word. Democrats want the genocide to end, but aren't willing to directly oppose Israel. Republicans, by contrast, want even more genocide."
Now that we know the Democrats are actively pursuing genocide, do you walk back the part of this statement that the Dems want it to end?
Nice how you ignored the part where I very specifically said that they are NOT pusuing genocide. Like that's literally the opposite of what I said, damn you didn't even moderate it or anything. Just full on lying to me about what I said. Neat.
You said they don't want to, which is generally false.
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize that a) you were a mind reader, and b) Democrats are conveniently lying every single time they talk about Israel, which you conveniently know due to your mind reading powers.
Come on, man. That's bullshit conspiracy talk. Democrats are calling for an end to the slaughter. Very publicly.
They give standing ovations to Netanyahu, send vast amounts of bombs, and decry protestors as antisemetic. You're projecting onto the Zionist Dems.
You got 1 out of 3. I thought you were better than repeating obvious lies.
I already proved all of them correct, stop batting for Zionists and hold them accountable.
Sad.
Let me know when the material reality of the situation changes.