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that Obama wouldn't have included the novel Headshot by Rita Bullwinkel in his 2024 Summer Reading List?
lol at Ganz being on Obama's list.
Also see: https://twitter.com/PetreRaleigh/status/1823107090035925472
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this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2024
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chapotraphouse
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I am so fucking tired of hearing about the white cis male struggle when everyone else is dealing with the same shit, but worse.
But no, we have all these fucking articles and books whining about how hard these dudes have it because women won't bring them their slippers and pipe anymore or some shit.
Men actually believe that they feel emotions more deeply and genuinely than women do. There's not a man alive who doesn't think women are beneath him.
Not only gender essentialist, but I get very strange cisheteronormative vibes from a sentiment like that.
How so? Misogyny is not inherent to being a man, but when men are surrounded by a culture that insists they're better than women by virtue of being men, they come to believe it
“Misogyny is not inherent to being a man” seems at odds with “There's not a man alive who doesn't think women are beneath him”
Not really, if all men are surrounded by misogynistic culture
So it is inherent to being a man in society?
In our society, probably I'd be surprised if it wasn't, but we have a lot of things to change
Please, we can talk about how men are shitty without saying that they are literally, all of them, to a man, irredeemable. Because that's obviously not true, there are plenty of men who see women as their equals. Yes, there's "male socialization" or whatever and men are often taught to be extremely shitty, but their shittiness is not a necessary part of manhood and they can be educated out of it.
In fact, I would argue that saying stuff like this, that "there's not a man alive who doesn't think women are beneath him" actually gives men a pass to be misogynistic assholes. If part of being a man is viewing women as lesser, then we can't hold any man accountable when he views women as lesser. But we can hold them accountable for this, and furthermore, we need to if we ever want to build a better society.
You're right. I overreacted out of frustration, but it's true that misogyny is not a necessary part of manhood, and that men can and should be educated out of it. We CAN hold them accountable, and we do need to, but I'm frustrated that it rarely happens. Most people seem to think that misogyny is not a big deal
I understand your frustration! Patriarchy is extremely shitty and misogyny is so often ignored and downplayed, it's really infuriating.
So, I think the other person's statement has problems, but I would argue that shittiness is a necessary part of manhood, and the degree that someone is a part of "manhood" is the degree that it is impossible for them to not be shitty. They can be educated out of that shittiness, but it requires educating them out of manhood. That is much of the reason that people call for the destruction of gender, because there is an inherent shittiness to it that it makes all of its members take part in.
I would say something similar about womanhood, if only because womanhood demands the existence of manhood.
I sort of agree in that I very much would like to abolish gender, I don't think it's a super helpful framework to have so heavily embedded in society and in how humans interact with each other. On the other hand, I'm wary of equating manhood with shittiness, because there are (a) non-shitty men and (b) people who actively choose manhood. I'm simply unwilling to say that a trans man is actively choosing to be a shitty human by virtue of choosing to be a man. That doesn't seem right to me, there's something drawing trans men to manhood, and I do not believe it's as simple as wanting to be a misogynist.
If you mean not shitty on the whole, I'd agree. If you mean immaculate, I would disagree. Manhood makes people worse. There are good men, but they are good in spite of being men not because of or with no relation to their manhood.
You might remember that I said that womanhood is also shitty. I don't think a trans man is choosing to be shittier, but I think they certainly aren't avoiding being shitty any more than cis people are.