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this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2024
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I can certainly appreciate your viewpoints. I only watched it once and in theaters, so it's been a while. I saw it as a gritty version of what happens in the comics behind the "Pow!" action bubbles, but I can certainly see the incel justification take. I would say that was more visible to me with Riddler in the latest Batman, but didn't see it as much in Joker. I went into it on the recommendation of a very accurate depiction of 1980s NYC so that may have drawn my attention away from other themes.
I do agree, I'm not a fan of the incredibly vague suggestion that it might all be fictional - Joker, Shutter Island, Inception. I'll give it another go and look for the details, but it's one of the things I refuse to entertain. I could agree there's intentional inaccurate recounts of details but I always buckle down on "yes it actually happened"
totally get that, I'm glad you were able to enjoy it within a context.
i will now rant, and invite you to feel no obligation to stick with this tirade past your point of interest.
Heath ledger pulled off the "maybe this happened or maybe I'm fucking nuts" beautifully, and it worked in repetitive short bursts of creepy horror within tense, threatening situations.
But the filmmaker of joker shrugging and saying "hey those two hours you had to sit through, uh, who knows, he's crazy, look at his cuckoo-diary" is so lazy and unnecessary, only subtracting from a story already lacking luster.
i tried to get into it how you suggested, as context for the legacy character, but the plot points and his problems were so unjustified or lazily written that i couldn't care about the story.
plus, the filmmaker told us the movie doesn't matter twice, not just at the end: the girlfriend angle, while not critical, could be interesting because there must be some reason she likes-oh no, that was all meaningless time the filmmakers wasted with an empty revelation and no payoff.
the character is unchanged stuff none of that screentime mattered.
the audience is being pushed away like "hey if you don't like him, you just don't get it" and then plugging in marilyn mansion earbuds and pushing play passive-aggressively while pissing on ants.
i know crazy people and i know whiny assholes in real life, and the joker in this movie is a whiny asshole who is unrealistically lauded for negatively lashing out about his impotence.
the whole thing plays like a love letter to incel shooters and people who give up on the world before engaging with it, and because they gave up on it they feel worthy to punish it?
watching the joker is like watching a dirtbag kicking a whining dog they are too lazy to feed.
and the movie wants you to clap for them too!
that was fun, thank you for letting me rant.