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Skepticism Sunday #5 — August 18, 2024
(monero.town)
Stay on topic:
- This thread is only for comments discussing the uncertainties, shortcomings, and concerns some may have about Monero.
- NOT the positive aspects of it.
- Discussion can relate to the technology itself or its economics.
- Talk about community and price is not wanted, but some discussion about it maybe allowed if it relates well.
- Be as respectful and nice as possible. This discussion has potential to be more emotionally charged as it may bring up issues that are extremely upsetting: many people are not only financially but emotionally invested in the ideas and tools around Monero.
How it works:
- Post your concerns about Monero in reply to this thread.
- If you can address these concerns, or add further details to them – reply to that comment. This will make it easily sort-able.
- Upvote the comments that are the most valid criticisms of it that have few or no real honest solutions/answers to them.
- The comment that mentions the biggest problems of Monero should have the most karma.
Previous:
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.
I think the rift between haveno devs and the haveno-reto devs is causing some project management issues. One such example that I get direct exposure is around adding a flatpak and AppImage packaging for Haveno(-Reto) and another is around how (or should?) should the users be able to switch between mainnet providers.
For the example of the first one read down from this message: https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/issues/270#issuecomment-2294807880
And for the example of the second one, read down this issue: https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/issues/931
There is a friction in trying to coordinate and contribute to the developers working on different (albeit quite similar) repos (in the case of the original Haveno repo and the -Reto repo). This friction in comms and contribution is causing delays in introducing software distribution packages such as AppImage and Flatpaks, which hinders (especially for TailsOS and Qubes-Whonix users) the onboarding of the new users, and decentralizing Monero's liquidity.
Is appimage or flatpak actually needed? Devs probably have things higher priority. You can "install" the .deb on most Linux systems simply by extracting the needful and running the binary. You may need to download the java runtime to run.
AppImage is absolutely necessary for users of TailsOS and Qubes-Whonix.
People have has success running on both of those, so I'm really confused why its absolutely necessary. I say again, you literally can unpack the .deb contents to run tbe executable.
Which people? Probably technically-minded, and over-determined people, yes. But do we want only such people have access to Haveno? Absolutely not. People who are only able to burn TailsOS onto a USB should also be able to hop-onto using Haveno and contribute to Monero"s distributed liquidity.
No I literally cannot! (maybe). AppImage model of running a program is exactly the same as running an exe file. Download, allow executable, and run. Most newcomers easily get disheartened when they read that they need to unzip a deb file or something.
haveno is in early stages anyway, but yea the more noob friendly it becomes, the better. Something is """hard""" to install when you do not explain how to install it properly.
Currently there's a way to install it on every OS, that's good enough for now. Also keep in mind that there aren't 20 dedicated developers working on haveno fulltime, you can't have everything at once with a small team of developers
True, but this is the price you pay for the developers being totally independent from network operators.
Their incentives are not totally aligned, and we get friction