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Linus Torvalds talks AI, Rust adoption, and why the Linux kernel is 'the only thing that matters' (www.zdnet.com)
submitted 2 months ago by recursive_recursion@programming.dev to c/linux@programming.dev
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/21338325

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[-] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 8 points 2 months ago

security vulnerabilities are simply bugs

I don't know how he can still maintain this clearly insane stance. Pride?

How else should it be handled?

[-] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 2 months ago

Should what be handled? Security vulnerabilities? Here's how you should handle security bugs differently to other bugs:

  1. Report them separately and clearly. Don't hide by omission the fact that they are security bugs (common practice in Linux apparently). Coordinate with major vendors how to push fixes.

  2. They are generally more important than other bugs so you should put more effort into detecting and preventing them. E.g. using fuzzing, sandboxing, formal methods, safer languages, safety annotations, etc.

  3. They have high value on the grey market and people actively try to create them, so you need to design your system under that assumption. An obvious thing to do is software isolation so a bug in - to pick a random example xz - can't bring down ssh. Software isolation, microkernels, sandboxing etc. help with this.

There's no way you can say "they're just bugs". Maybe in the 80s. It's not the 80s.

[-] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 3 points 2 months ago

Report them separately and clearly. Don't hide by omission the fact that they are security bugs (common practice in Linux apparently). Coordinate with major vendors how to push fixes.

That's exactly how it works. Vulnerability found, reported and fixed in secret and when everything is in place everyone is informed to update.

They are generally more important than other bugs so you should put more effort into detecting and preventing them. E.g. using fuzzing, sandboxing, formal methods, safer languages, safety annotations, etc.

I don't want to sound condescending, but what do you think all this talk about Rust and AI tools is about?

In the end you want to prevent all bugs from happening. Some filesystem bug randomly deleting data can be just as catastrophic as remote code execution.

And if some feature turns out to be a gaping security hole you'll quickly see it turn into a bug. That's what the quote is about. Every security issue is a bug so it has to be handled like a bug and squashed.

Priority in bugs exist independent of them being security related or something else. A critical bug will always get the highest priority fix.

[-] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 2 months ago

I don’t want to sound condescending, but what do you think all this talk about Rust and AI tools is about?

Yeah I am aware. It's very good that they're looking at it and great that Linus is supportive and not a stuck-in-the-mud. Doesn't invalidate my comment thought. He's still saying security bugs are no worse than other bugs.

And if some feature turns out to be a gaping security hole you’ll quickly see it turn into a bug. That’s what the quote is about. Every security issue is a bug so it has to be handled like a bug and squashed.

I mean... I don't think that's what he's saying. Nobody is saying not to fix security bugs...

this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2024
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