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Pope Francis denounces Ukraine’s Russian Orthodox Church ban
(www.catholicnewsagency.com)
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this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024
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It's state banning religious organization no matter how many rounds of mental gymnastic you do
This has nothing to do with the matter
Gold medal at mental gymnastic. This is just setting up state supported religion and opressing those not adhering to it.
Finally you say something with substance, unfortunately for you this substance jut offer a more or less valid reason for state opression, not making the opression disappear.
Oh damn, so having anything at all to do with Russia now justifies literally everything
Sure, it's only religion, known as least important and trivial issue ever. Read yourself again what you just wrote here.
It's not when a state comes in and bans and confiscates. Afaik Ukraine is secular state, it does not have state religion so why it does everything to look like it have one.
I mean sure Vatican shouldn't throw any stones when the topic is religious freedom, but again, it's clear case of religious opression.
Bizarre and missed comparison. More apt would be if Egyptian Coptic church expressed concern over US state banning and confistating US catholic church (or any other non-Coptic church in US).
Good thing you mention 1000 years old history! Makes your erlier dismissal of any concern over the organisation and worldy manner of denomination even funnier and more detached from reality. I'm sure there was no issues with antipopes or friday prayer names ever, after all "nothing else changes dogmatically"
I did not say you're flat out wrong, I said "not exactly". What you call "religious oppression", I see as "administrative jostling". Sure, the choice of which patriarch to mention at mass can be a huge issue, I'm from the Balkans, I know exactly how ugly it can get, but even that is "church politics", not "religious persecution". This is a political, not a dogmatic issue. It's not sunnis persecuting shias, it's not catholics vs protestants. The pope vs antipope analogy is actually a good one. Like I said, this is an internal matter of a single denomination. It's a power struggle, not a theological debate. Which is why I don't see that as religious persecution, there is nothing "religious" about the struggle, they're not debating the natures of Christ, the Filioque or predestination or whether the twelfth Imam is the Mehdi. It's about who gets to be the boss of this or that church building.
Is the state meddling with religious affairs? Sure. Should it not be in a perfect world? Sure. But this is how church and state intertwine in our neck of the woods. Same thing happened between the Ottomans and Greece 200 years ago, between Greece and Bulgaria 100 years ago, between Serbia and Macedonia more recently, and so on and so forth. This is how nationalism and Orthodoxy have been intertwined since the collapse of the two empires that used to control them in the past, the Ottomans in the south and the Russian Empire in the north. In this context, the Ukrainian state is countering the meddling of the Russian state that has already completely weaponized the Russian church. The Russian church has been functioning as the long arm of the Russian state for a while now. This is not some group of believers being persecuted for wearing the wrong type of hat or crossing themselves with two fingers as opposed to three, it's competing nationalisms. Reducing all this context to "religious persecution" is kinda ridiculous.
This is precisely the kind of mess that will be healed with pan-orthodox synods once the wars are over. Has happened before, will happen again.
PS.
You're ascribing to me a russophobia that I just don't have. I'm not "justifying literally everything", I'm giving context to a religious power struggle.
PPS. I'm not downvoting you.