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this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
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politics
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If what I said is true? Are you seriously suggesting it’s not?
There are currently 4 independents in the senate. Manchin and sinema were elected as democrats, Bernie and King are “real” independents who happen to caucus with dems.
Everyone else in both the senate and house of reps are either democrats or republicans.
As for keeping them off the ballot, it’s simple math. There were 4-5 swing states that were won in 2020 by ~20k votes or less- which is an incredibly small margin.
They might not have a chance to actually win in any of the states, but they might be able to pull enough votes to let Trump win.
Do you really think they’re on the ballot to actually try and win? Nope.
It’s all show. If they were serious about it, as a party, they would focus on seats in the legislature, where they’re not just pissing away campaign resources with nothing to show- and, I might add, where they might be able to do something with FPTP elections.
My anger is because they’re off in a circle jerk instead of actually focusing on doing what can be done, realistically, today.
Meanwhile we have a choice between a fascist dick-fuck and “basically not that.”
So I guess they can do something, then. Because you sorta downplayed their abilities in your earlier post. Because I guess they can get votes, which means I guess some people believe in their values.
I think they are on the ballet because they want to make change. Do you think they woke up and said, "Hmmm, I want trump to win. I guess I'll fake all my values make it seem like I really care about what I say, start a third party...All so I can trick people into voting for me, and that will help Trump win!!! Yesssss, precious, a perfect plan! hahahahahhahaah!!"?
Do you think that is what is really happening?
Maybe, just maybe, they are fed up with false promises from both parties. They stand up, make their voices heard, and do something about it.
I'm third party. I don't care how mad democrats get. I don't care how mad Lemmy gets. I don't care how many "russian asset" and "Putin-lover" comments I get. I don't care how many "You want Trump to win then!" comments I get.
I share the same values as them. I, and as you have noted, many others do too.
I don't give a shit how mad you are or how many times you imply that I am doing it just to get Trump in office.
I'm not voting for your candidate. About half of the country isn't voting for your candidate. Accept it.
Not every person who isn't voting your way is some fascist pig. Do you understand?
Not only that, many predict that Harris is gonna win anyway, so calm down. But I'm still not gonna vote for her. And even if polls said Trump was gonna win, I still won't vote for her.
Ever. Accept it. Move on, friend.
Not enough to win.
Which means either they’re incredibly deluded, or winning isn’t the goal. When was the last time someone who wasn’t a democrat or republican got a single electoral vote? The only one I know of is Hospers in ‘72.
And that was from a faithless elector, not actually winning in Virginia. (Gonna say Colin Powell doesn’t count- those were also faithless electors, and he was probably still republican in 2016.)
Doesn’t change that a doomed POTUS run doesn’t actually change anything. And if by some miracle they do manage to win; what policy can they really change without congressional support.
It’s hard enough when you have more or less half of congress. They have… none.
Which again: if they’re serious parties why aren’t they using those resources to run for congress? Where they can actually bring “real solutions” to the table.
3rd party or independent candidates can win in congress.
But enough to make the democrats scared and mad. So I guess the aren't as weak as you implied.
Ok, so tell us, what do you think the goal is? Just say it full on and no vague words.
They do run for congress, and they also do local elections too. Haven't won any congress seats yet, but they have run. And as for local elections:
Californians have elected 55 of the 226 office-holding Greens nationwide. Other states with high numbers of Green elected officials include Pennsylvania (31), Wisconsin (23), Massachusetts (18) and Maine (17). Maine has the highest per capita number of Green elected officials in the country and the largest Green registration percentage with more than 29,273 Greens comprising 2.95% of the electorate as of November 2006.[68] Madison, Wisconsin is the city with the most Green elected officials (8), followed by Portland, Maine (7).
Also:
https://montanafreepress.org/2024/08/21/green-party-candidate-files-to-join-u-s-senate-race/
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/3127249/eight-green-party-write-ins-will-run-in-the-general-election/
Now, having said that, do they suck at winning these? Yep! But don't think that they are just here to spoil presidential elections. They actually do try to run for congress and local.
I’m not the one flacking for them. Never mind the candidate running for office.
I don’t like ascribing malice to what can easily be explained as stupidity, and generally, it doesn’t really matter.
Much strength. Such wow.
In 2020, they got what? .1% of the total nationwide vote?
Kinda makes you wonder why they’re dumping resources that could go to improving the grassroots candidates- or maybe sniping vulnerable seats in congress.
Again- malice or stupidity doesn’t really matter. They’re not acting like a serious party, so why should I- or anyone- take them seriously?
Values may be aligned- but they come with a lot of baggage and virtually no support and little upside.
Which I agree with. So, I just wanna clear the air. You DON'T think they are just doing it to get Trump elected on purpose. Because a lot of people on Lemmy, wierdly think that.
I'm just pointing out that they are involved in smaller elections too. Some people are under the impression that they ONLY run in presidential elections just to "spoil" them.
And I'm voting for them based on values, not based on the odds they have of winning or not. As are many others.
is that the party, though? or is that loosely-aligned people who see value in the "green" label. I imagine CA has a robust state-level party, considering their success there. But that's not translating to national gains.
as to why Stein, De la Cruz, or West are running.... I don't really know. I also don't really believe what they say when they give their reasons. Maybe they're trolling for donations? or maybe they like the attention? or, of course, they're deluded into thinking there is a chance where there is none.
Bernie is an exceptional candidate, and it's perhaps unfair to compare them to him... but he's done more good, and more to shift policy towards the left than all three of them combined. Is it as glamorous as a presidential run? far from. But it's more useful.
which brings us back to:
Well, they are running under the Green Party label, so yeah, that counts at the party.
Or maybe they want to make a difference and standing up for what is right. Even against the odds. I'm no fan of West, so I can't speak to his convictions, but Stein and De la Cruz seem genuine to me.
I agree. I would have voted for Bernie as well.
but with virtually zero party support.
Shouting into the void might feel good and feel like standing up for something. and it accomplishes about as much. I would take a centrist like Angus King over them any day because he's at least got an understanding of what can be done and where. If Stein and De La Cruz are genuine .... I'm not sure that's any better, to be honest. A presidential campaign is not a good vehicle for encouraging social change. Either run for office where you can push that change and improve lives, or protest outside of it.
But don't tell me they're changing discourse somehow. The needle hasn't move. has never moved. at least not because of the campaigns.
They had green party support.
Stein and De La Cruz might not win, but they do play a crucial role in pushing the political conversation by highlighting issues that the major parties prefer to avoid. Their campaigns can bring attention to important topics like climate change, healthcare reform, and income inequality, which forces the mainstream candidates to address these issues to avoid losing votes.
While it might seem like the needle hasn't moved, the presence of third-party candidates has historically influenced the platforms of major parties, as we've seen with issues like minimum wage increases and environmental policies.
Running for office at any level—whether local, state, or national—contributes to the broader fight for social change by challenging the entrenched two-party system and advocating for alternative solutions.
When was that?
Minimum wage has been $7.25/hr since 2009.