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this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2024
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chapotraphouse
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That's an automatic, "a union rep will be present for every conversation even if it's just to piss you off" type of situation for me. Put those shithead managers in their place and show them who really has the power. I think you can safely advocate for them talking to their union in any case, granted, I hope it's an actual labor union, not a business union, or chances are they won't do anything. I'd expect Teamsters to do good by them.
This "managers getting pissy" situation is where you bring a vote to the union so the next contract requires a union rep present for every conversation between managers and workers unless the worker explicitly waves that right. Management does not get a say because they crossed a line they shouldn't have. They do not get to be pissy about it or there are consequences.
Zero tolerance for getting between workers and union reps. Zero tolerance for union busting activities. Give those fuckers an inch and they will pull the whole rug from under your feet.
I think it's tougher to show people this unless they are actively part of a union organized and operated by the workers they represent. When they have this connection, they can directly see how powerful they are through their collective actions and this understanding carries over into other parts of life.
When you are part of a union that doesn't have a direct connection to the workers and when you don't participate in your union (sometimes because it's a PoS business union), it tends to leave you disconnected from the process (and results) of organizing. It leaves you feeling powerless, much like with voting in liberal democracies, where you know your vote doesn't really matter and those who are supposed to be advocating for you don't care about you.
Yeah, fully agree.
I don't tell people what to do because in my experience, well, no one likes that. I wouldn't anyway. I try to sort of just lead them to water or "hey, that might be illegal... just saying!"
As far as the last part, I was thinking while writing about a conversation Brace and Liz had with a guy whose name I forget and too lazy to look for... anyway, the guy was talking about this tradition of radicals, young working people, who would purposely embed themselves in these organizations or corporations, do the jobs, suck it up, be a worker there for 20 years or whatever all with the explicit ideologically driven desire to see the place unionized. They knew that the best way to convince workers of their power and the benefits of unionization was to be a worker alongside them first, fight with them against management, win a union contract, and then stand up and enforce that contract.
That kind of shit brings a tear to my eye legitimately. It should be inspiring to others too, no matter where you might live. If no one else is pushing for a union, maybe you should. If your union sucks ass, maybe you should be the union rep.
I know from personal experience that coworkers will mock you for trying, management will try to fuck you hard, you won't have many workplace friends, but if you stick to it you'll find over time people know you're trustworthy, they know you're brave (or really stupid at least), and a day will come when something happens that pushes a person who normally is afraid to ask management for anything and they'll come to you for help and say "I saw how you dealt with them, and well, I need..." whatever. Of course it's not about personal aggrandizement and such, but we believe in this stuff not just because of logical reasons, but because we also want to see and feel the benefits for ourselves too one day if we can.
I think for any young people who are despairing in the current moment, for valid and obvious reasons, this is a worthwhile thing to do in life. It's also very achievable, has been done before, and could open the pathway towards first unionizing as many workplaces as possible, hopefully building up union power in entire sectors, and then once people are becoming more class conscious... start pumping in the socialism. It's how it was done before, and I don't see any reason to not do it again. Unions aren't inherently political organs, but the organization and the class struggle experienced by active union members lends itself to an easy transition from apolitical actor to full fledged socialist pretty easily.
I’ve worked manual labor as my first few jobs, and if I have to work there for 20 years, I would do certain things that are only unique to American society.
I largely agree with the sentiment, but as the saying goes "someone's gotta do it." And someone is doing it. I was just tossing it out there an active pathway to change for people to consider. Like if you wanna see union power grow and class consciousness spread, you can actually do something about it. It's honestly one of the last vectors of change available to westerners at this point, as sad as that is. We aren't voting in socialism. It seems like we aren't even voting in some liberalized socdem shit (France straight up ignoring the will of the people. Happens all over the place). As industry (probably) is forced to return to the first world, if people unionize these critical sectors and start pushing them towards greater awareness of what the US does, their roles as workers in the world, etc. that is how you get a class conscious, radicalized, organized movement that has power behind it in the form of unionized workers and no longer must beg for scraps from the government but can make demands.
Of course even if all this happens it's decades off in the future. But again, who knows.
One of the most experienced labor organizers used to do this, but on a shorter time scale. He's retired now, but volunteers constantly to help teach people about their labor rights, how to organize, and then helps those who are in the process through all of the steps needed. I love working with him.
Damn, that's the total opposite of my experience so far (not the management part). I spent a couple years laying seeds of how organizing could benefit us. I'm in a relatively powerful position in relation to how difficult I am to replace, so I've been confident enough to push management hard to make sure I get a raise each year (last year they tried to give me zero!) Sharing my strategies and helping guide my coworkers through how to get similar results went a long way. The few who went to the trouble saw how effective it was and that's part of how I got them on our organizing committee. I've been there a long time and people are used to seeking my advice in our work, so I'm sure that's helped make them more receptive.
I'm sorry to hear you've caught so much flak for it. You're doing important work that will benefit everyone in your workplace, even if they don't see it yet.
Yes! Once they see that they actually do have power when they band together, things start falling into place for people. They begin to wonder: if organizing can have this much impact at work, where else can it be applied?
I'm wondering if the worker should even be able to waive it. There's room for intimidation tactics there.
Absolutely. Not sure how to balance this, because I can also see a manager abusing the rule by using it as an excuse to dodge a simple, but important conversation because no union rep is available.
That's the reason I left it open.