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USB-C confirmed for the iPhone 15 in new leaked images - Macworld
(www.macworld.com)
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this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2023
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Government regulation works.
I think the jury is still out on this one imo. If Apple does what the rumors are saying and limit it to 500mA @ 5V and 480Mbps transfer speed unless you have a MFI chip in the cable, then I don't think these regulations worked.
Also, if a hypothetical USB type D comes out some time in the future and blows USB type C out of the water in every category, but phones can't use it because the EU said, then these regulations didn't work. It's my understanding that the EU protected against this possiblity, so I'm hopeful that this won't happen. But I haven't actually read the bill myself. I have only heard this from comments on the internet, so I don't know for sure.
This is not correct for devices being sold to the EU at least. Part of the amendment to the Radio Equipment Regulation outlines the exact standards for power delivery that must be used, and that interfaces which are capable of being charged @ > 15W must "ensure that any additional charging protocol allows for the full functionality of the USB Power Delivery...".
For data transfer, I don't see the point and future improvements to USB will come from industry in future.
The only way around this is with a wireless charging protocol, but manufacturers are moving away from that it appears.
If the EU covered all their bases here and Apple doesn't find a way to screw their customers, I will be extremely happy. I just feel like they always find some way to be shitty. 😂
The EU requirement isn’t actually USB-C. It’s whatever USB-IF says is the standard connector. So if USB-C gen2x2 (or wherever they will call it) comes out, that will be what everyone has to implement.
The problem would arise when USB-IF stops being the de-facto innovation driver for peripheral interconnection.
It's amazing how few people know this very basic fact about EU regulation yet are so quick to criticize it. Internet in a nutshell I guess...
It's also worth pointing out that Apple is part of the USB-IF and was one of the early pioneers of the Type C connector, so it's not like the EU is forcing them adopt some random foreign design.
Yeah, sure! Let me tell the tale of W3C and WHATWG.
Even if companies keep trying to be anti-consumer despite regulations, it doesn't mean we need to stop trying.
Don't forget that, at least in Europe, governments are elected by Europeans so they're our representatives. Companies however only represent their shareholders, and their bigger ones in particular.
Even if they limit the speed of other cables I think for the most part it's still worked
Looking forward to the day a charger cable is a charger cable and no more of this "could I borrow your charger? Sorry only got an iPhone charger/micro USB" problem
Slow charging is infinitely better than no charging in an emergency
The power numbers I mentioned above would just cause modern phones to die slightly slower. But that's the minimum required for USB 2.0, and that was the rumored amount that Apple was going to allow without an MFI chip. But other users seem pretty confident that it won't matter because Apple won't be able to find a loophole there.
Still potentially the difference between being stranded without a phone and managing to trickle charge it over a long period of time while it's off
True. But I still think this would be a huge oversight, as it would completely go against the spirit of this regulation. It should be easy to keep this hole closed and a huge slam dunk if they can do it. If the EU whiffs on this, I definitely won't consider it a win. All it will do is make Apple users upset that they can't really use all the cables that they already own for non-apple devices. This will cause some families to purge every cable in their house and replace them with MFI cables, resulting in a ton of money for Apple, a ton of money spent by consumers, and a ton of e-waste. Is all that worth it when they could have just kept the loophole closed? An argument could be made, but I wouldn't change my mind on it, especially when it would have been so easy for the EU to do it right in the first place.
But again this argument is kind of moot, because other users are confident that the alleged loophole doesn't even exist.
We'll see I suppose
Also my argument is not that it won't suck if they find a loophole but it's still better than what we've got right now
I'll agree with that for sure.
Always have been
And ever will.
Consumer-based regulation works better.
ie- when people stop spending billions on iphones that don't use standardized hardware.... Then, perhaps Apple will stop being anti-competitive assholes.
Right now, they can get away with being anti-competitive assholes, because everyone keeps buying their products.
Money speaks.
Just watch- apple will indeed release a phone that has a USB-Type C port. Then, disable data transfer to any non-apple certified USB cord, due to "security concerns" or "fire hazards"
It literally does not, as evidenced by the state of chargers in the 2000s and early 2010s, before the EU threatened to regulate if phone companies didn't get their shit together. Back then you'd have a different charger design for virtually every phone, including new models of the same phone. USB only became ubiquitous because the EU told companies to stop fucking around and legislate themselves, or the EU would make formal legislation. Most companies got the memo, but Apple decided to be cunts for long enough that the EU decided they needed to finally step in.
Consumer-based regulation being the end-all is based off the classical- and neoliberal ideas that humans are rational actors and companies have a greater incentive to compete than to collude. Both of which are lies.
Touché. Point taken, you aren't wrong there.
Be very careful with this, because this is also the very foundation of democracy. If we start saying humans can't decide for themselves over insignificant phone charger, how could we trust them selecting the people who has much more power than that?
That’s actually the opposite of the foundation of democracy. Democracy spreads the power out through as many people as possible in order to lessen the potential for abuse by any individual actor. Electing representatives who have near unlimited power and no recourse for constituents isn’t democracy, its oligarchy.
Well, that's not our democracies work. We don't let people vote every law by referendum, that would be spreading power as much as possible.
In ancient Athens it was common, as was common for judiciary decision to be made by 3-4 hundreds people drawn at random. But that's something almost universally considered stupid now, we have a judge, who we consider an "expert" in law.
By your definition, we don't live in a democracy, on the contrary, democracy is extinct on this planet
There are indeed democracies on the planet that work in a way that both allows the use of representation and maintains the power in the hands of the constituency by allowing easy recall processes and mandates that officials follow the will of their constituency. We just don’t have them in liberal democracy, which was created, in part, to specifically guard against the possibility of majority rule, as mentioned in multiple of the Federalist papers, including but not limited to Federalist 9 and 10.
Who else is there to trust but us humans?
Individual humans don't have the ability to choose their phone based on their preferred charger. Each purchase is made between one buyer with fairly limited funds and few large corporations with extensive funds.
Which is the same as saying that every vote is transferred between one voter, with very limited knowledge and political awareness and a few politicians with extensive power because politics is what they do their entire life.
Democracy is, in many practical sense, a market for votes. One which is way less regulated than the one for goods and services
There's nothing to be careful about, it's absolutely true. Democracy isn't flawless and is capable of leading to demagogues and reality-denying lunatics coming to power precisely because humans aren't rational actors. But just because democracy isn't perfect doesn't mean it's worse than the other systems we've come up with.
It's not so simple. If my parents stopped buying iPhones, they would need to replace their watches, their TV streaming device, their car chargers, and all their apps. You can't expect normal people to collectively switch from an ecosystem designed around lock-in.
How is it not so simple, when all that still falls under them being anti-competitive assholes?
Consumer based regulation only works when consumers care enough to have a sense of dignity about it.
So... in other words, it doesn't work.
That's my thought. I'd go so far as to say it should work, but humanity is broken.
Never really got the craze around smart watches.
if your streaming device requires you to have a certain type of phone to use, you should replace it regardless. Roku/AndroidTV/etc... They don't care WHAT type of device you try to stream media from. Have an IPhone? Sure. Android? No problem. Blackberry? That might not work.
Wait until you realize any 5$ charging cord from the corner store can charge your phone, and connect it to your car!
Most of those work just fine on android. Just swapped my Dad's phone from apple to android a few months ago, and was able to find all of his apps without any issues.
Consumer-based regulation doesn't exist lol
But you just negated your initial argument by using Apple as an example...?
The real test on this one is going to be in how well those regulations support the eventual transition from USB-C to something else.
There's inevitably going to be a use case for new connectors that have some yet-unidentified advantage over USB-C for certain devices, and there's going to be hurdles convincing regulators to grant exceptions for those devices or to adopt one of them as the new standard for everybody.
There's plenty of examples of government regulations gone wrong trying to transition from an old technology to a new one. (i.e. the REAL ID format in the US, or the switch from analog to digital broadcast TV).
The regulation is worded to require whatever the USB-IF currently requires, which is what companies that adopted USB already follow. The concern here died before the ink on the law even dried.
Earlier rumors speculated that Apple would cripple it via software, either restricting charging speed, data transfer, or both.