414
‘Morally indefensible’ – but George W Bush will not come out against Trump
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
414 points (97.9% liked)
politics
19096 readers
2749 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Depends on what "recent" memory is for you. I've got Reagan and Trump neck-and-neck. While Bush should be tried for war crimes, he's nowhere close to as bad as Trump. I'd put Bush and Clinton in the cage match.
Reagan was well liked and won by a landslide, I hate to say. By the time Bush Jr came around the mask was coming off. Both Jr (-0.51%) and Trump (-2.09%) lost the popular vote when they were elected. Hindsight being what it is, Reagan bad, Bush bad, Bush Jr bad, and Trump bad.
Being popular does not make you a good president.
Of course he won the vote… otherwise he wouldn’t be president. It’s what he did when he was there that mattered. And boy. Did he fuck everything up good. Still is fucked up. Hell. He is probably the reason trump exists basically.
Right, in hindsight, as far as actual policy and actions taken as president, Reagan is the worst in modern times. We wouldn't have Bush or Trump or Project 2025 without Reagan.
If you were to remove everything around 9/11 and Iraq from Bush's presidency, he's relatively okay as both president and person. He, arguably, did great things to help immigrants and minorities and children. Not sure how No Child Left Behind is seen these days. I think Bush did more to help the disadvantaged than Clinton. But, to really assess each and every action a president takes would require a college semester. And your perspective on good or bad may be influenced by what you believe the job of government is. Reagan's entire pitch and lasting legacy as a Republican icon was to dismantle the federal government, eliminate "social" programs, put "bad people" in jail, promote corporatocracy, fool the middle class to believe in the trickle down effect. Not to mention the entire Iran Contra ordeal. I mean, we don't have super solid evidence about Trump's associations with foreign countries / leaders. Trump's probably too stupid and narcissistic to care about anything other than opening Trump buildings and golf courses in other countries.
Trump's worst actions as president were his judicial appointments. He's easily the worst person to hold the office as president in all of US history, but as far as worst president in modern times, I think Regan has it over on him.
It's actually a tough judgement call I would say. You're right about everything, but you shouldn't underestimate the damage Trumpism has done (and is doing) to the American people and politics. Trump has managed to radicalise millions of people and as Germany will attest after the fall of Nazism, de-brainwashing cultists is a herculean task that will often fail - many Germans carried their indoctrinated beliefs with them until that whole generation died off.
Reagan still might be worse on balance, but it's probably close.
is different than Trump the president.
The presidential actions taken by President Reagan are different than the choices Americans are making to endorse and follow Trump. It's the actions Reagan took as president that have in large part brainwashed the public and created the environment where people are flocking towards people like Trump.
Trump the president is a symptom of the problems created by Reagan, Stone, Cheney, and the Heritage Foundation. Trump the brand is the epitome of Reaganomics and corporatocracy.
Reagan set the seeds for dismantling our trust in government and putting it into corporations and celebrities. Reagan (the actor?!) is the prime modern-time example of the people ignoring politics in favor of celebrity.
I would argue that Reagan's influence and GOP brainwashing far surpasses Trump's to the point that the vast majority of people in this country are wholly unaware of its existence. Though, yes, the extremism that Trumpism has fostered is certainly more dangerous to the public and democracy. I just don't blame Trump for all of it. America chose to elect him president for a reason. I believe that has more to do with Reagan than with Trump.
Great points! The idea that Trump is a symptom, a logical function of a longer and deeper process is something I absolutely agree with and I think needs to be spoken of more. I guess my follow-up question would be, is Reagan really the seed or is he too perhaps an almost inevitable product of the American culture?
America is a fascist country and it was particularly fascist during his '84 election bid. Winning in a landslide on a white supremacist, anti-LGBT, New Red Scare platform is not a point in his favor. Might as well laud the administrations of Andrew Jackson or William McKinley.
Given the degree of electoral suppression common to the post 14th Amendment American electoral system, those numbers are likely much worse. But they're also illustrative of the consequences of electoral strategy. Republicans don't care how much you run up the score in California if they can win on the margins in Pennsylvania or Michigan. Democrats keep reaching for Texas and Florida, then falling short, which bumps up their gross total without yielding any electoral benefit.
But neither party seems enthusiastic about ending the EC. Despite a Trump delegate coup in Georgia and a J6 riot at the capital threatening the legal transfer of power, Dems seem blaise about amending the constitution or even tilting the deck back in their favor with DC statehood.