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this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2024
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While I think this was a stupid way to go about risking jail time for a noble cause, I would like to remind everybody here of what everybody in the 60s thought about MLK and his peaceful protests:
There never has nor will there ever be such a thing as "the right way to protest." The right way to protest means out of sight where it can be conveniently ignored.
Interesting that you think this is stupid, yet you acknowledge that protests are inherently uncomfortable.
People are talking about Just Stop Oil every time they pull one of these stunts. Sounds like they're accomplishing their goals will bells on.
I mean stupid as in "you might as well do something worth the punishment" or that they might have been better off blocking traffic through a major thoroughfare or something rather than possibly damaging a cultural artifact.
I agree with the concept, just not this particular executation.
Uh.. do you know what their punishment is for this? They usually get carted to the local jail, held for between a few hours and a few days, then released once the media have gone away. The offense is so minor that the punishment is the equivalent of getting lost in a corn maze. Usually, the JSO people are older people who don't have much going on and so it's literally no skin off their back if they have to sit in the local jail for a few days. (Also, UK jails are much more humane than US jails, so they don't really suffer)
See, I don't think you do. I'm not trying to No True Scotsman you, but if you agree that protests inherently have to upset people a little bit, you can't then turn around and say "but don't upset us like this!". You don't get to pick and choose what protests are morally correct or even worth it - that's the protestor's job, not yours!
While that's often the punishment, this particular event was a repeat of a previous event that resulted in a two year prison sentence. At least that one particular judge is throwing the book at climate protesters for minor acts.
And why is that? At least partially because a) like it or not, oil barons have a lot of influence and b) people are whinging about it, which makes judges think that they're doing the will of the people.
This is why I said "you might as well do something worth the punishment." In the US, protesting can get you more harsh sentences than crimes like assault or robbery. And not to "That's, like, just your opinion, man" but...it's just my opinion that their time would've been better spent blocking the street and holding up rush hour traffic or something for the punishment that they got. Like you said, it clearly worked because people are talking about it - and talking about it enough that the arguing in another post on this article got the post locked.
I'm not here to rag on them. Again, there's no "right way to protest," and this is a noble cause to protest for.
She did exactly what you suggested, except you havent heard about it because it doesnt generate media coverage, this does.
This exactly. Protests happen more often than people think. It's just easy to bury it.
They are being noticed, but I'm not sure they do more good than harm:
Fossil fuel lobbies have long stopped trying to paint oil as good but rather environmentalism as bad, and activists as idiots.
If you look at old pro-oil propaganda, say 80s-90s it was all about how great life is thank to oil and how bright the future of the oil-based economy was going to be, downplaying climate change and pollution related issues.
Now they're just engaging in mud throwing because their position is untenable.
Going for the shock factor may just fuel their game.
Yeah but what are they saying when they're talking? Most people are saying "look at these crazy climate people, something is clearly wrong with them". Maybe the protesters should do something that makes people say "maybe we should care more about climate change" instead.
This is a common problem I see with modern protests. Protesters of a certain other cause I won't name spray-painted my neighborhood. I try to be a logical person, and logically I'd like to think my perspective on the issue they were spraypainting about is unaffected. But I can't help but notice that on an emotional level, I really do not want to be on the same side as the people who disrespected me and my neighbors by spraypainting our neighborhood. To the point where if someone says they find that cause important, I actually feel a slight uncontrollable pang of disdain for them.
I don't think most people try to be as aware of how their emotions affects their thinking as I do.
they said that about suffrage and women's suffrage too.
I feel like I'm starting to see way more sympathetic comments than I did a year ago.
Effective protests are uncomfortable. That doesn’t mean that any random act of vandalism is an effective protest. You’re trying to ask a relationship transitive which is not transitive.
I agree except that potential damage to historical pieces makes me extremely upset.
I would prefer they ACTUALLY riot to that.
... and, in fact, that would probably be much more effective.
They tried protesting at oil infrastructure, they stopped multiple oil terminals in the UK being used for weeks and caused shortages in various parts of the UK. Hundreds went to prison and everyone forgot about it after a week.
They throw soup at glass, 2 people go to a police station for a few days and people are still talking about it months later.
Unfortunately, they have to exist within the constraints of modern news media, outrage cycles and social media, and that influences their decisions.
People are mostly talking about what a bunch of idiots they are though.
This lot look like they were cast by the daily mail, they couldn't be more of a caricature. It is absolutely not effective communication.
Those look like 3 random people to me. I'm not seeing the caricature. For them to not be caricatures, what would you expect them to look like?
But you have heard of captain Jack Sparrow...
I understand they used to protest for climate action, but now they’re just nutcases making it harder for the rest of us.
I guess good for them that they got their moment of attention, but not all attention is good attention. Especially over here in the US, it’s hard enough getting half the population to care about the environment, and now they’re just dismiss it as “those nutcases”. This does not help anyone.
I mean JSO never actually tried to damage historical pieces. The paintings are behind glass
What you’re really saying is that no effective protest will ever be welcomed as acceptable.
But the way you say it, that there will never be a right way, begs another question: just because legitimate protests will be called wrong, does that mean that all protests are right?
I don’t think so. This is a random act of destruction. I personally find it disgusting to compare this to MLK’s mass demonstrations.
My argument is not "if a protest is uncomfortable, then it is effective".
It is "how can you in the same comment say 'this is a stupid way to go about risking jail for a noble cause' and 'there never has nor will there ever be such a thing as "the right way to protest"'?".
Well. If you’re going to bring out that argument regardless of how stupid, destructive, and ineffective the protest is, then I’m afraid your argument turns into that first one.
I’m going to go shit down the throat of a golden retriever in front of the White House to protest oil. Are you going to block and tackle for me, reminding my critics that effective protests are always uncomfortable? I’m just probing to see if you will just automatically say that or if you are evaluating the situation before saying it.
Sorry, I wasn't aware that animal abuse is on the same level of inanity as throwing soup at a painting. You're being insanely disingenuous.
Oh did I make you uncomfortable? I must be stopping oil.
Don’t hold you opinion so tightly that you start to believe anyone who disagrees with you must be being disingenuous. That’s a little free life advice. Animal abuse and vandalism are both crimes, as is destroying cultural artifacts. So do you want to explain to me in what way they are NOT on the same level?
If I run a red light wearing a “no oil” t shirt, is that a protest?
I'm not even going to wait for you to come up with a new angle to come at me with.
I award you the Useful Idiot Ribbon.
Disingenuous, useful idiot… any other terms you heard online and don’t understand how to use properly? Words have meanings. They are not mere talismans to wave at someone.