19
‘It Smells Like a Rat’: The Nasty Feud That Could Flip Wisconsin
(www.politico.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2024
19 points (100.0% liked)
Politics
10179 readers
186 users here now
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it's a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Subcommunities on Beehaw:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Being frank, the Green Party and Socialist Party do so little organizing when it's not a presidential election year that it ought to be a joke among all leftists. They aren't doing the outreach or work necessary to implement any of their grand promises made every four years, because they're not getting local party members elected in downballot races. I've been on both party's mailing lists for 22 years and in three different states and have almost never seen anything come of it. Well... besides fundraising emails every four years.
Greens have to actually work to live, unlike Democrats and Republicans, who are backed by billionaires and dark money. That is why most of what they've achieved is at the local level.
the Green Party in my state is opposing a ranked-choice voting initiative because it's not good enough for them and they want proportional representation--when they haven't even run a non-presidential candidate in my state in at least the past four years despite liberal ballot access laws.
their best performing candidate in presidential history is a guy who thinks mom and pop capitalism is fine, and that the real issue with our country is "corporate capitalism" ("It’s corporate capitalism that I’m against. Not small business, Main Street, mom-and-pop capitalism. And the difference is far more than a difference in magnitude. It’s the difference in the quality of power."). his theory of change is fundamentally progressive-liberal at best, but indistinguishable from what people like Elizabeth Warren believe.
there are more open socialists in just the New York state legislature right now (8, all caucusing together, will be 9 next year) than have been elected total above the local level for the Green Party (5). even accounting for party switching, this expands to just 9 people in history. this is not a party which is ever going to be a serious vehicle for left-wing organization, and i would argue it is genuinely detrimental to socialist and left-wing organizing to send people to organize with them. i would literally prefer people not electorally organize than organize with the Greens; they have thrown tens of millions of dollars down the drain for absolutely no benefit.
As opposed the tens of trillions thrown down the drain by Democrats, conservatively speaking. The Iraq War alone, which Democrats supported almost 100%, estimated to have cost upwards of 20 trillion dollars. The Democrats' response to the trillions lost in the Great Recession was to ensure that the rich lost nothing and were never imprisoned for their crimes. The workers, meanwhile, had to take to the bread lines.
I think if you look at Democrats' governance objectively, it's easy to see why Socialists and Democratic Socialists are hostile to them, as Democrats fight harder against democracy than they do to enact progressive policies. It also becomes clear why so many Americans don't bother to vote at all, as they get the same results no matter who is elected.
It doesn't change the fact that in 2016, Democrats lost due to their own choices as elected stewards of this country, and that will be the reason they lose in 2024 if they aren't elected.
we're not talking about the Democratic Party here. we're talking about whether the Greens are a vehicle for electoral success, and even a basic evaluation of the facts is that no, they aren't. they lose 99.8% of their races above the local level--none of their ostensible local success, which itself is fleeting, translates above the local level.
again: there are more elected socialists in New York's legislature currently--who caucus together on a shared radical platform--than there are Green Party candidates who were elected to a legislature total in the party's now 30ish years of existence. those eight socialists got the Build Public Renewables Act enacted into law (which "will require the state’s public power provider to generate all of its electricity from clean energy by 2030. It also allows the public utility to build and own renewables while phasing out fossil fuels.") and they've pushed for things ranging from the the Clean Futures Act that would "prohibit the development of any new major electric generating facilities that would be powered in whole or in part by any fossil fuel" to the All-Electric Building Act that would prevent "infrastructure, building systems, or equipment used for the combustion of fossil fuels in new construction statewide". what do the Greens do that come anywhere close to this? where is their equivalent of the BPRA being signed into law?
retroactively correcting myself here: the All-Electric Building Act is actually another thing NYC-DSA won and i just didn't realize it. it's pared down from our demand, which was "the state energy conservation construction code shall prohibit infrastructure, building systems, or equipment used for the combustion of fossil fuels in new construction statewide no later than December 31, 2023 if the building is less than seven stories and July 1, 2027 if the building is seven stories or more.", but the actual law ensures the core of the demand is adhered to: going forward most NY buildings will be all-electric.
We are talking about the Democratic Party here.
As I stated in my initial post above, there are myriad reasons why Democrats are resorting to a meme campaign instead of discussing the actual things they've done (and chosen not to do) with the power that we gave them in 2020. They can't. Republicans don't have to lie about Democrats' governance,.
The Green Party is not the reason they are failing. They are failing because of their own broken promises. Workers can't subsist on memes.
i'm noticing that you're refusing to engage with the points i'm making describing all the ways in which the Green Party--in contravention of your assertion that they "have to actually work to live"--fails to be a vessel for any sort of serious political action, electoral success, or winning radical demands that would help avert the worst effects of climate change.
anyways, did you know that one of those socialists in office i'm talking about in New York--Jabari Brisport, a guy i know pretty well and who really walks the walk (devout environmentalist and vegan)--ran as a Green Party candidate in 2017 with the backing of New York City Democratic Socialists of America? because he lost 70-30 when he did that (that was a "respectable performance" for a Green Party candidate) and the Greens reaped exactly nothing from him running besides a "moral victory" that they haven't improved on or built off of since.
and strangely, when we ran Jabari again as a Democrat in 2020, he actually won. and because he won, he's a big reason we got the Build Public Renewables Act passed--and a reason why bills such as the Clean Futures Act and the All-Electric Building Act get introduced and debated at all (because he helps introduce them and fight for them on behalf of the chapter). thanks to him, there are now material, working class victories that socialists can point to for why people should elect us over moderate Democrats who don't care about any of this. if he just kept running as a Green, we probably wouldn't have been able to do any of that. running as a Green was a quixotic strategy that accomplished nothing for the working class, and he'd be the first to admit that.
Thank you for your opinion.
Most local candidates have to work to live, and making outlandish statements to these effects weaken a person's rhetorical standing. From the article you posted:
The Green party could clean house in Maine where we've actually got Ranked Choice Voting and they could win seats, but we're not a swing state and the greens don't act like they're interested. Neither does the Socialist party, or SocDems for that matter. But I do see their campaigning in battleground states, promising things out of their presidential candidates that are squarely the purview of congress, in which they're clearly not interested in having representation.
The Democrats could, as a party, elect not to rule as conservatives too, but they never seem to do so. They've had the power several times over the last 16 years to make life better for the working class and the poor, and they seem to always elect to protect and promote the lives of the billionaire class.
They make promises they have no intention of fulfilling and people suffer. Then they repeat those promises every four years, but eventually, they turn to excuses, and the Green Party is a convenient one.
You can't blame the Green Party when Dems shoot themselves in the foot. The number of people who vote Green is far outweighed by the number of people the Democrats have convinced, by the way they choose to wield power, that voting is a pointless exercise.
Someone took the time to politely correct this misconception a few days ago, their reply from then is pasted below:
__
The fact that there are still anti choice democrats in our legislatures is a failing on the part of all the left-leaning voters in their districts and states (myself included) to organize and replace them with people who will advocate and vote for our policy goals. Alternative parties could capitalize on those races by representing the wants of those left leaning voters in off election years but choose not to.
I, and many others, do not blame other parties when the dems shoot themselves in the foot, we blame the dems for their poor decisions. Likewise, we blame the green party for running a quadrennial grift on the disaffected leftists who know enough to be upset but who wrongly believe the extent of their voting power is only this one race.
It's extremely telling that whenever they are presented with these facts they refuse to respond
Tbh I'm fine missing out on it if it's as dismissive as the reply to @alyaza's direct firsthand experiences working with a local politician who faced issues campaigning which are completely germane to this conversation.
I've felt this way for months now to be honest.
Nobody's obligated to continue a debate ad nauseam. Bowing out is a healthy skill, and we should not be shaming that.
Besides, if your interlocutor leaves the discussion, that means you got the last word. There's no need to sling mud. Just take the win.
I definitely agree with that. You're right. However it is also frustrating on our small instance to have a user repeat the same talking points in multiple threads time and again, and when pointed out that what is being said is a misrepresentation of the facts, not respond and pick up with it again later in another thread
Uhm, the Green Party's primary donations are Home Depot and other Republican donors. Talk about billionaires and dark money.
Speaking of Green Party at the local level, I have only been able to find a very, very small handful of Green Party members who have been elected.
In fact, I can only see 3 since 2020.