616
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2024
616 points (97.8% liked)
News
23664 readers
2654 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
What is the common thread that links almost all of these crazies? I mean, even more than religion.
Conservatism. Almost all of them vote for, or are elected representatives of, conservative parties.
And conservatism encourages divisiveness and bigotries like this. To be suspicious of and actively hate others, to find “evil” where none exist. To believe in falsehoods even when they have been demonstrably debunked.
Conservatism of all stripes is fundamentally evil. Conservatism is what will destroy civilization, and eventually, humanity.
I think it can be further boiled down to a belief that hierarchies are either necessary or good. All of the evil are cases where those higher up in the hierarchy impose their will on those lower.
Under those beliefs, the meaning of things like "respect" and "good/bad" are different than when one believes that everyone should be considered equal. The politeness version of respect is for equals, when they aren't equal, respect only needs to go one way and if it's sent the other way, it's more "effective management" and not giving respect "downwards" then boils down to a different management philosophy rather than simply being an asshole. They can even acknowledge that it is an asshole way to treat people, but there's an underlying belief that it's ok to be an asshole to lessers.
It also makes the whole "they believe in things that hurt themselves" make more sense. They just believe that those higher than them in the hierarchy deserve better treatment. Maybe there's an element of hoping to get there themselves one day, or maybe there's an element of just feeling like they are inferior to those they agree are their betters.
This is why they don't really care if Trump is consistent or if he'll help them directly. It's also why his support is wavering, because if he's not strong enough to win, then he isn't really their better and is just fooling them, which also helps explain why the ones who have tried to take his life seem to be former followers because they can't be neutral about him, it's either gotta be love or hate.
It makes sense that those who believe in it and those who don't would be at odds with each other because the two beliefs are very incompatible. I'm not sure there is a resolution. It used to be "just don't talk about politics, keep it private", but that wasn't sustainable as each side of the divide wanted to push for improvements under their belief system.
This is such an excellent and rational explanation. Thank you!
So how do we reprogram people to see hierarchies as evil and destructive outside of true crisis situations?
You don't. The answer is always, without exception, going to be violence in the long term. It is the only permanent equalizer that is able to forcibly impose large scale social reorientation. At the most basic level the social order of government systems, regardless of form, are an agreement about who controls the monopoly on the use of violence. Given where we are currently at as a culture I don't think that bodes well for the future because we are treading a very thin line with giving inmates control of the asylum.
I fear that you are correct. Unfortunately, conservatives are steeped in a culture of violence and violent preparation; anyone on the left automatically thinks the best of their fellow man. They aren’t going to be ready if conservatives trigger another civil war in America.
People shit on religion, but it's rarely a problem until it's conservative.
You've hit the nail on the head.
Conservatism is the mistake of assuming outright that people are evil, and therefore need to be punished and conquered into being good, or at least restricted. Where the reality is people aren't quite good or evil, they're more marbled, and if you buy the conservative misunderstanding, the punishing and the conquering are morally good, whereas stopping them is bad. What conservatism won't acknowledge or doesn't see is that when you grow, encourage, support, and develop the good parts, you can safely drop a large portion of the punishment and conquering stuff.
Most of what conservatism is defending itself against is its own way of doing things.
Conservatism is "outgroups to bind, in groups to protect". It's pretty bad.
And conservatism is fundamentally hostile to democracy, as well. It gravitates naturally to oligopolies, monopolies, autocracies, dictatorships, and despotism.
I mean, just look at Trump and Project 2025, to say nothing of past conservative behaviour involving gerrymandering and other shenanigans.
Conservatives think freedom is protecting their way of life by eliminating anything that threatens their world view. That includes democracy.
Trump is demonstratively extolling fascist ideas such as rejection of the rule of law, rage against the elites, nationalism and race superiority, heroic strength through force, attacking the week, and disdain for women and gender minorities.
Have you ever met conservative atheists? I have and SOME of them have been the most hateful and vile people I ever met. It's like without any form of religion holding them back, you obtain the "purest form" of conservationism.
Some people think with no god, that means it's actually on humanity to take care of each other.
Other people think that with no heaven, better make this life count and fuck all y'all bitches, carpe deez nuts. Every man for himself. (Not women though because those aren't people).
That sure is a divisive opinion...