Biden, Netanyahu Closer to Consensus on Attacking Iran (scheerpost.com)

submitted 1 month ago by shreddy_scientist@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social -4 points 1 month ago

There are two choices in the United States 2024 election. No third party stands a ghost of a chance of winning. No, not even if the 30,000 people you can reach on Lemmy all vote for Timothy Greenparty.
A Trump victory in 2024 would not only be just as bad if not worse for the citizens of Gaza than Harris would, but also pose an existential threat to a large number of vulnerable Americans (trans people, immigrants, women seeking abortions).
Given the margins of victory in 2016 and 2020, Kamala might not win if leftists don't vote for her.
Snoozing fascism for four years is better than inviting it through the door now, and buys us time to build our defenses for when it comes back.

I'd like to focus my counterargument. Which of these statements do you disagree with?

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago

What are you doing to stop fascism outside of voting for the lesser fascist?

Fascism cannot be defeated through the ballot box. It is capitalism in decay, when capitalist democracy becomes unviable and the capitalist ruling class choose capitalism over democracy.

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social -5 points 1 month ago

So, none of the above, but you're still not going to vote?

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm dismissing your framing; I dont live in a swing state, dont try to convince me to vote for the lesser fascist.

My question is, do you care about stopping fascism or do only you care about delaying it for another four years?

Do you care enough about stopping fascism to put in work to stop it outside of election day and trying to post your way into getting people to vote? Like, seriously, are you interested in putting in actual work to prevent fascism in the US in our lifetimes? This isn't a gotcha I'm trying to set a baseline.

[-] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone -2 points 1 month ago

I'd like to ask what are you doing to stop fascism? You're actively stopping people from voting for the only person who can defeat Orange Hitler, so what are you doing to make up for that?

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm doing about 20 hours of work a week as part of a socialist org, in service of building up a center of power to actually be able to challenge the lesser and greater fascist.

I'm thinking long term, because I'm not satisfied with "just vote for the less fascist party every four years as each party keeps getting more fascist" If all the work you're doing is within the confines of bourgeois sham-democracy you'll never be able to defeat fascism. Fascism is capitalism in crisis. You can either find a magic cure to stop the contradictions of capitalism from heightening or you can move toward defeating it.

The latter is the only one that has been demonstrated to actually work.

[-] i_c_b_m@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I sure hope Brown Hitler beats Orange Hitler.

What a vibrant fucking democracy you amerikkkans sure have over there. Whatever meaningless, bootlicking bourgeois electoralism you choose, let's hope you don't get everyone else on earth killed as a result of your endless and unapologetic imperialism, invasions, coups, proxy wars and many genocides.

Is it guilt that keeps you from reading your own history and understanding that all this mass murder that amerikkka has been inflicting on the world for hundreds of years is not driven by the individual incoherent puppets your political system forces you to choose from, but from the very nature of your capitalist empire? Fascism is the product of capitalism in crisis. It's not a thing you can vote against, since you have absolutely no meaningful input in the decisions of the worlds most violent military empire (and you know it). What kind of political system creates a revolving door for endless marches of psychotic war criminals and even puts a few of them on the menu every few years? Obviously not a system that opposes fascism.