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Scientists warn of 'societal collapse' on Earth with worsening climate situation (www.irishstar.com)

submitted 1 month ago by PortoPeople@lemm.ee to c/world@lemmy.world

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[-] NeuronautML@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Solar panels and batteries require massive supply chains. They require our rarest minerals and highest tech, with highly educated workers to develop and produce and state of the art clean rooms and factories.

If we stop producing them, the current stock will be useful for like 50 years tops. Then it's back to fossil fuels, I'm afraid. Diesel generators last for a long time, and they're easier to maintain and produce.

I remember i read a doomer theory stating we should be stockpiling coal for the humans that remain to rebuild society since there is nothing we can do at this point and fossil fuels is the only thing that will outlast the collapse. I'm not that pessimistic, but i can see what they mean.

[-] Vlyn@lemmy.zip 21 points 1 month ago

Lol, Diesel can on average only be stored for 6 to 12 months before degrading. Good luck with that.

If a collapse ever happens I'd rather have solar panels and an EV. Fuel production and transport would instantly grind to a halt and the existing fuel goes bad soon after.

[-] NeuronautML@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yeah, it's true diesel degrades quickly, but oil does not. Depending on where you live, you could more quickly set up a low scale refinery than a solar panel manufacturing workshop. Most likely, people would use coal in most places without access to oil in short distance since it's more widely available and simpler to use.

[-] Vlyn@lemmy.zip 13 points 1 month ago

Mate, we are talking about a societal collapse. You won't have oil available and you won't be able to refine your own diesel at home (especially without energy).

Your argument about solar panels being difficult to produce is utterly out of place. Your diesel generator and your car are more difficult to produce, but you already own them from before the downfall. So if you own an EV and you own solar panels then it doesn't matter how difficult those are to produce when you're just using them.

[-] NeuronautML@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I wasn't talking about making diesel at home. That's pretty much the immediate aftermath of a collapse.

In the case of a societal collapse, eventually, new city states will be formed using salvaged technology and eventually technology produced of their own. My argument stands that to restart civilization, you will more quickly go back to fossil fuels, which are simpler to salvage, manufacture and utilize than high tech solar panels and batteries.

This includes gas vehicles. It's just a fact that electric vehicles and semiconductor technology are luxuries of the modern era and not long term post apocalyptic tools of survival due to their manufacturing difficulties, durability and maintenance necessities. Just as an example you have Toyotas from the 60s that can still work just fine and i guarantee you a Tesla made today won't work in 60 years, unless you replace nearly every electronic component of which it depends.

I'm all for renewables and sustainability and ditching fossel fuels, but from an engineering point of view, i just don't think I'd be trusting in electrical vehicles and semiconductor tech in a post apocalyptic scenario. The reliability just isn't there.

And diesel generators/fuel refining is most definitely not more difficult to manufacture than semiconductors. Just to make a simple silicon wafer you need more tech than to make a piston engine. Let alone doping it to produce enough photoelectric effect to power stuff with. There's a reason we more quickly figured out diesel/gasoline engines than semiconductors. You need clean rooms, high tech engineers and a lot of robotics for things we can't do with enough precision with our big clunky hands at the nano scale. With piston engines a workshop will do and fuel refining is just basic fractional distillation. As a side note, i could most definitely refine diesel at home. I've distilled things more complicated than diesel. But that's beside the point. I understand you meant the average person with no training wouldn't be able to do it and i understand and agree.

[-] wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 month ago

Gas only lasts like 6 months before expiring. It can be stabilized to last a couple of years, but within 3-5 years all existing gas would be unusable (as far as I understand it).

Running a solar system past its ideal life when it holds even 20% of a charge and has lower efficiency is better than nothing.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The doomer theory variation I read is that we’ve played out most of the accessible fossil fuels. If society has to rebuild, they have no way to get past the stage of fossil fuel use, because advanced extraction like fracking would not be possible. The very things that made our society possible, are bridges were burning as soon as we cross them. There is no rebuilding

this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024

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