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this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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You lose way more voters than you gain on the issue by resorting to all out condemnation of one of our biggest allies, unfortunate as it is
If only there were some policy between the current enthusiastic unconditional support and all out condemnation.
Maybe if Harris were running as a Republican.
But its not Republican votes she's leaving on the table. Its literally registered Democrats. And Democrats put the responsibility for the state of things on the Israeli government.
Center right republicans are up for grabs here, idk if youve heard but Harris and Trump are pretty much neck and neck in every battleground state. She's trying to reach out to Republicans that are fully sick of Trumpian politics. It's not progressive voters she's courting nor should she
And if she loses as a result? Then who are you going to blame? The Democrats who left her? the Republicans who didnt join her? Or harris for being so committed to genocide she lost to a literal fascist?
Keep in mind the longer she waits the more likely it is those historically democratic voters are lost due to early voting.
Centrists will do what they always do. They will interpret a win as vindication and an indicator that moving to the right works.
They will blame their left for a loss, announce that the left are unreliable voters, and use that as justification for moving to the right.
Yes thats why i dont care about their lesser evil nonsense.
It's her calculus man, not mine. The Harris campaign has decided this is the way to go, if she loses because of it then she loses because of it. I think it's the right way to go but honestly not really any point arguing about it, we're gonna find out real soon either way
indeed we are. but then you'll be stuck knowing you did jack shit to stop a genocide when all you had to do was lie a little bit to make her sweat it out. maybe follow through if your state can take the hit on democratic support. instead you decided your effort was better spent arguing with me and others like me instead of getting in on the game. =)
Understand how policy works. We dumped biden over gaza, union busting, and literally being on the down slope mentally.
Every bit of support we withhold from harris makes the campaign that much more tenuous increasing the likelihood of either: her switching positions now, or giving our congress critters more leverage over declining her terrible policies later. If she loses as a result of these efforts we made no secret about what she'd need to change. Thats on her.
This is why the 'lesser evil' shit is nonsense. You can absolutely crater her support in safe states and still have her win. We've given the dunces plenty of hints the last few weeks what was up. Almost ever thread im in i mention the alternatives to the lesser evil nonsense.
Next time try to support your arab brothers and sisters instead of shitting on them like harris has done and this would have been less stressful for you. Maybe sit down and think about what you're seeing and instead of trying to demand people vote the same way you are demand your policy pigeon change their policy if you dont find whats being requested objectionable. No one wanted us to leave Israel defenseless we want her to stop shipping weapons until the destruction stops and real peace talks begin. The fact people like yourself fought harder against this than in getting harris to fix her nonsense position says more about all of you than us.
You're infuriating me because you know nothing about me. You have no idea the monetary support I've pledged to Palestine. It's not thousands or even hundreds but i don’t have very much and I've given what I can. I've spread the word about Palestine, Mossad, the IDF, regional complacency, debunking conspiracy theories about Hamas and the United Nations, all of it. You know nothing about me and yet because we've swapped a handful of words about American politics you think you do. That's why you're pissing me off, not because we're disagreeing on Kamala's campaign strategy but because you're completely full of yourself. Fuck you. May Kamala win and may the Palestinians some day know peace and prosperity in the land that's rightfully theirs but honestly fuck you.
Im comfortable pissing you off. All youve done is demonstrate my point, youll fight harder to support a genocidal candidate than to get her to not commit genocide . translate that anger into action to get harris to swap positions. i didnt make her back genocidal policies. if she loses its her fault. biden was tanked over gaza, union busting and mental health declines. gaza is not news for harris. she knows her position on it is a huge risk, particularly in states she absolutely needs to win.
the only question you need to ask yourself is would you vote for harris if she committed to following the law and enforcing leahy on israel. if rhe answer is yes you should be doing the same thing ive done.
the harder this win is for harris the better. means less support shell get for her absolutely disgusting treatment of arabs and gaza. itll reduce the fear congress critters have of aipac. etc.
Thank you.
Np mate. We're all doing our part hoping for the best outcome we can manage.
You are literally arguing she make a speculative play to turn Republicans instead of going after registered Democrats that she's lost.
I'm highlighting this to demonstrate for posterity how patently absurd the apologist rhetoric was on this matter.
Not just to turn Republicans, but to depress the Republican vote. Speculation here, but I think it's reasonable to bet there's a large number of Christian Republican voters who will never vote for Harris but aren't motivated enough to vote for Trump...unless Harris condemns Israel. If Harris gains 2% Dem votes from never-genocide lefties but Trump gets 5% votes from Israel-to-the-max Christians, she loses.
I'm just really happy you responded with this, so thank you.
Posterity, when you are looking back on this, the comment above is the kind of wack-a-doodle, baseless, hopium, purely speculative, completely devoid of evidence kind of thinking people were using to defend Kamalas' obvious failures as a candidate.
Tactics in first past the post democracies is indeed whackadoodle, but that's the system we live in.
I'm all about tactics, but I'm all about evidence as well. If you can provide some data, some evidence that what your saying has merit, I'm more than happy to discuss.
That's a complicated one. I think we can agree that in general, Republicans support Israel and don't believe that Israel bears any responsibility for their genocide in Gaza, and largely either don't believe there's a genocide happening or are perfectly happy that it is happening.
Here's an article from back in July where Republican leaders (not voters) condemn Harris for expressing sympathy for Palestinian civilian deaths: https://www.factcheck.org/2024/07/republican-rhetoric-on-harris-position-on-israel-goes-too-far/
About 30% of Republicans want the US to pull back on ceasefire negotiations: https://www.newsweek.com/poll-democrats-republicans-divided-israel-role-war-escalation-1977027
Trump is absolutely courting Jewish Republicans: https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-09-05/trump-harris-israel-gaza-hamas-hostages
But I can't find any specific poll numbers asking Republicans "would you be more likely to vote for Trump if Harris denounces Israel?" So I don't have any hard data, just informed guesses.