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VLAN usage under Proxmox
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2024
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I don't think there is anything wildly wrong with it, but it seems like you're doing all of this at the router, unless you have dedicated switches for each VLAN?
VLAN is not a security feature, it's a logical separation of IP segments. Maybe I'm missing your intention here, but just setting different IP spaces on VLANs and then bridging them doesn't help your security, it just complicates your network.
Not OP, but logical separation and firewall rules is a needed first step for security. They already mentioned in the post that one vlan has dedicated outbound (via VPN only) and doesn't have access to their .200.
Physical switches per vlan is completely unnecessary, and entirely why vlans are used rather than subnets.
Yes the idea is to make it easier to isolate/configure firewall rules and try to protect more sensitive data. (i.e. I don't care much if people can access my ISOs ;) However, at the end of the day they are all on the same Proxmox host.
You can't use the same subnet on different vlans if you ever intend for both of them to reach the internet. In that case you'd need a second router which just defeats the purpose
They are all defined as 192.168.x.y/24 Doesn't this make them in different subnets?
Yes.
And to be clear about things, because that comment doesn't make any sense for VLANs - a VLAN can contain multiple subnets. You will not have a single subnet across multiple VLANs.
Your config is fine in that regard.
You dont need to have the same subnet on different vlans. You also dont need them to each have a router, that isn't how this works.
Each VLAN gets a gateway, in a subnet accessible within that VLAN.
Under no circumstances do you need a separate physical router for having 2 VLANs on the same network. That's not how VLANs work.
Not saying physical switches are needed for security, which is why I was asking for clarification. Doing all of this on a router doesn't make sense without a physical separation though. That's my point. If the router gets owned, they have access to all networks anyway. If the idea is just for traffic direction and shaping, then I'm confused why the bridged pihole.
I'm going to have to say, I have zero idea why you would suggest this for something that is logical, and specifically not physical.
Logical separations and vlan segregation for trust models is standard practice (though hopefully more will trend towards a zero trust model, but irrelevant here). There is zero need for any physical separation. What are you talking about?
Friend...you clearly are not reading what I'm saying. Not one single sentence that I've typed suggested there needs to be, or ever was a physical separation. That is why this setup without clarification doesn't make much sense if security is the goal.
You are saying exactly what I'm saying and arguing about it for some reason.
Your first sentence was about physical switches...
There already is a logical separation that makes perfect sense - out through VPN with no network access initiated by that VLAN to the other two internal. That'd a security step that's pretty clear and valid off the bat.
So again - I don't follow anything of what you're driving at, no. Because from the first sentence in your first comment forward isn't making any sense.
Please, clarify, because I don't know why you'd even bring up different switches for an extremely basic logical separation.
VLAN on a singular router without physical separation is not secure. OP was asking for feedback, that's my feedback. It's accurate.
Thx for the feedback, I don't have multiple router no. If I had would it be still called VLAN? I thought the V was Virtual for achieving that LAN segmentation with one router. With one router, don't you think the security added is the same level as configuring a firewall on each VM/LXC ?
Your understanding is correct.
Multiple routers is irrelevant and ridiculous.
Well it wouldn't matter if your router is the thing that someone gets into. All you're doing is separate traffic in different subnets, and if that's your goal, you're good to go.
You are aware that a firewall rule is how you would address - in software, with logic - someone trying to get from VLAN C to VLAN A, right?
That its part of the method you'd use as a layer of security to prevent someone gaining access to.your router?
Assuming the router is compromised from the start is similarly just nutso.
You are aware that being on the router would have access to ALL the ingress and egress interfaces, right?
That's not how any of this works.... At all.
No, its managed by the firewall. The existence of a VLAN does not grant it access to egress. The firewall needs to permit that behavior.
Your entire understanding of how a logical network works is wrong. I'm not trying to be a dick - this is just really bad information that you're sharing.
JFC 🤦
How are you NOT understanding what OP thinks is happening, versus what you thinks is happening?
If I get shell access to this router I have access to ALL NETWORKS. VLAN won't help any of this.
HOW WOULD YOU GET SHELL ACCESS TO HIS ROUTER FROM A FIREWALLED OFF VLAN THAT DOES NOT GAIN ACCESS TO THE MANAGEMENT VLAN THE ROUTER IS ON.
Holy crap dude.
BASIC networking.
Lolz at you. Sweet baby Jesus, you have no idea.
Take a networking class instead of spewing nonsense please.
Take your own advice: https://www.n-able.com/fr/blog/vlan-hopping-security
For some reason you think a home router can't be gotten into because of a VLAN of all things🤣
You're sitting here worrying about some packets from the internet being safe for some reason and not realizing the big picture. Go back to Innernette learning school, tough guy.
Take a networking class. You have numerous fundamental misunderstandings and make wild assumptions on bridging gaps that has specific requirements to occur, which also requires a complete lack of any other security methods.
Take a networking class, please. You need it.
Edit: You're mad and still down voting, I want to point out you dont even understand the link you provided.
You should probably read that. But looooooong before then, you should take an actual class on networking.
You need it.
Thats my line.
I'm also done having any sort of discussion with you, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of logical network design here, and I have no interest in correcting that. Enjoy your day.
That's... Insane feedback.
But sure.
Please inform me of how that's..."insane"?
Because the overwhelming majority of multiple vlan use, and proper use at that, is going to be managed by a single firewall at the end. Because that firewall is going to manage intra and inter vlan communication, and to suggest that requires a different physical router is... Wild.
Because logical network design - regardless of egress - is a vital component of any security implementation.
Because having a multiple egress solution that doesn't rely on a software based connection (VPN) would be absolutely bonkers for a self hosted solution at home.
There are just... So many things that are absolutely buck wild crazy to me in what you've said. And not in a fun 'yee haw' kind of way, but a "boy oh boy if that could be bottled it would sell like hotcakes on the street" sort of way.