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this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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Mildly Infuriating
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I can't really blame the Democrats. The public is who failed. The Democrats ran a sane adult. That alone should have been enough to beat Trump.
No its not when people are in agony. To them, this is their torch. This is how fascism rises.
We made it through the Recession and COVID-19, but now people are in agony? No fucking way. They chose fascism because they are awful.
Yeah. Fascism rises further because Americans voted for it, not because of the candidate.
More important to have a Chad than anything.
Some extracts from a great comment from another user on lemmy (readfanon). I'll paste this here since some people seem to think that the Democrats did nothing wrong and it is the "left" voters who failed them :
1-You are chasing the DNC to the right and one day you will wake up and wonder to yourself "How did I end up all the way over here?" I'm not following you into that marsh but you're welcome to go into it yourself, just don't get upset at me when I point out what you're heading into and don't get angry when I refuse to blindly follow you.
2-Historically, fascism has never been stopped at the ballot box. You being convinced that this is possible does not sway my opinion on any matter aside from my estimation of your political awareness and your ability to achieve change.
3-You had four years (eight+ if you count Trump's regime and the lead-up to it in this calculation) to "stop fascism". What did you do in this period of time? Did you push Biden and Kamala to adopt policies which have mass support? Did you do anything except go to back to brunch?
4-You aren't entitled to others' votes. Stop pretending that you are.
5-We aren't splitting the so-called left, Kamala Harris did that all by herself.
6-You have no red lines. There is nothing that could make you not support Kamala Harris and we know it. Telling people to drop their standards and ignore their conscience to vote for Kamala is a fatal strategy and you killed her campaign by deploying it.
7-Almost all of your arguments for voting for Kamala Harris (aside from the "it will stop Trump" argument which, in retrospect, appears to be a dismal failure) also apply to reasons for voting for Trump. "You can push them left", "By voting we will get a seat at the table", "Voting third party or not voting at all is a wasted vote", "We have to vote this way to protect the country", "Politics is about comprise - you cannot expect them to be your perfect political candidate", and whatever hold-your-nose-and-vote arguments you trot out. Did you ever stop to ask yourself why it is that you do not find these arguments for voting Trump to be convincing?
8-Last time Trump got elected you were brutally vindictive. You took glee in the thought of people in red states and marginalised groups suffering due to policy and things like natural disasters, regardless of their politics or how they chose to vote. You were excited to tell these people that they were going to get deported and put into concentration camps. You will do it again this time too because you have learned nothing. November came and these people you targeted with your vicious schadenfreude remembered. They aren't going to forget how effortlessly you abandoned them and how you wished the worst suffering and ill-fate upon them.
None of those excuses justifies voting for a clearly insane man. You don't look at a normal person and a guy screaming about eating cats and say "that cat eating guy is the one out of the two who should have the nuclear codes". It's fucking moronic.
And half of it is either not true for me personally, based on some hefty assumptions even if applied generally, etc....
Which of the points do you feel are not correct ?
Could you elaborate on it ? Otherwise I can't really motivate and explain them.
It's OK, your explanation is not required.
I mean, you joined in on people having a discussion/debate on why Kamala lost, said some of the points are not valid and then refused to explain which point or why.
I guess you do you but we are still left wondering what could possibly be wrong about the original message for you.
Hey you got what you wanted, and you got to post a lengthy manifesto about it. I don't feel obligated to give you more of my time than I already have.
Neither Kamala Harris nor Trump should ever have access to nuclear codes !
Let's remember K.H. literally said she wanted to start a new war with Iran and that she wanted the "most lethal army in the world".
You fell for the Dems propaganda so hard you literally can't see how both of the main runners for the elections were crazy far right candidates. There is no substantial distinction in foreign policy between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump so neither of them should have access to nukes, not voting for any of the two parties is the only logical conclusion.
The only reason why the good 3rd party candidates are not electable is because of people like you that will blindly follow the Dems on their descent into fascism. The US does not need two Republican Parties, so stop supporting and justifying the second one. Go out and start building support for an actually good party, that's the only way to save the country from fascism. Not voting for the Democrats.
Citation fucking needed.
That has been the explicit US policy of the US regardless of leadership for 80 years.
If you think Harris and Trump are equally crazy, YOU are the one who needs psychological treatment. Trump literally wanted to nuke a hurricane, pulled us out of our nuclear deal with Iran, encouraged the US to develop and test "low yield" nuclear arms, and encouraged South Korea to build their own nukes. Harris along with Biden has simply continued the standard nuclear deterrent policy the US has followed for decades in spite of the first direct nuclear threat by another country since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
About the first one, I guess it was actually Tim Walz that, when asked if he supported a preemptive strike on Iran, replied that Israel has a right to expand itself and that he would back Israel since it is a US ally unlike what he thinks Trump would do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMIEaiS88pI
And Tim Walz is who Kamala Harris chose as VP, so let's not joke around and pretend Harris would have disagreed with any of this. The Democratic party was always the fascist party but with "the mask on" as opposed to the Republican Party which is "mask off"
But also, while less literally, Harris did say that (and I'm quoting an article linked below):
https://www.algemeiner.com/2024/10/11/kamala-harris-vows-do-whatever-necessary-prevent-iran-acquiring-nuclear-weapons/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/harris-to-jewish-voters-all-options-on-the-table-to-stop-iran-from-going-nuclear/
At the end of the part I quoted from the article she is literally celebrating about having strikes Iranian proxies already. Let's remember that Israel striked an Iranian embassy, which is considered an act of war.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_airstrike_on_the_Iranian_consulate_in_Damascus
But kamala Harris has supported, is supporting and would have supported all of this, because she sees Israel as an important proxy of the US in the middle east. And the white house uses Israel to project it's power against the Arabs countries and destabilize them. This is why she was never going to end the Genocide in Palestine.
Also, your only excuse for the fact that she wanted the "most lethal army in the world", is that the previous Dems also wanted this ( like obviously, she is from the same party as them, what I'm saying is that that is actively bad and should be a red line, an army should only be defensive, this is not what she was implying if you go back and listen to the DNC speech) and Republicans as well. Again, supporting 100% Hitler because another candidate is 101% Hitler is not that great of a talking point like you think it is. Actually on this particular issue both candidates are the same level of "Hitlerite". That's the party you support, and because you support it, you completely oppose the development of any 3rd party that would not have this crazy warmongering policy.
To end for now my reply, a candidate that supports the foreign nuclear weapons policy the US followed in the past decades is actually a huge negative because the world has never been more tense (as you seem to notice as well in your comment). That policy is getting us closer to nuclear war and you think it's good that Kamala Harris wanted to follow it !? Again, she is just being the fascist with the mask on, instead of being mask off like Trump.
And just to remember you, I do not support Donald Trump, I never did and never will.
Walz supports Israel making a preemptive strike on Iran, not the US. At no point did he or Harris say they would use US troops in an offense against Iran.
Not anywhere close to reality. The democratic party in no way meets the definition of fascism.
So the same as literally every president ever.
He cozies up to all the dictators because he wants to be one, so yeah he wasn't tough enough. He let them out of their treaty which was preventing their atomic weapons research. Keeping nukes out of the hands of an authoritarian theocracy is a good thing.
Except she and Biden have been pushing for peace nonstop.
Meanwhile Trump said he would encourage Israel to "finish the job" which means kill them all.
The best defense is to be the most lethal army so nobody wants to fight you. That has been US policy for BOTH parties since WW2. It's a good policy because it keeps us out of wars.
The policy for Democrats in past decades has been mutual disarmament of nukes. Trump wants us building more.
Again, you need to look up the definition of fascism because Harris in no way meets it.
If you didn't vote for Harris, you did support Trump.
I took a few days to reply because honestly it is exhausting.
You know, when some people online call you Russian Bot, it does make you wonder if any of you will ever see through the Dems propaganda. But there is also the possibility that I am the one talking to bots.
I do believe that, at the end, time will prove me right. After all they do say that "A liberal is someone who opposes every war except the current war" .
That said, I'm probably going to respond a little to this one because it is honestly the most brain-worms comment I might have ever read.
There is no material difference between Israel striking Iran with the backing of the US and the US doing it directly. Israel fights with US-made weapons and with full US approval.
And by the way, the current government is actually sending troops to Israel to operate defensive weapons, this lets Israel focus on attacking border countries and commit Genocide. The majority of Americans oppose this btw, so obviously a few day before the vote, the Dems decided to increase how many soldiers are deployed there.
Also it does not matter that there are no US troops in the contested territory, the Israeli army acts as part of the US army.
All of this is already happening under the supervision and approval of Kamala Harris.
It really makes you wonder if the Democratic Party even wants to win.
Don't make me laugh.
In this article there are also a lot more parts that i could quote and would make it clear that K.Harris does not care about peace in the Middle East. After all, that's why this happened.
And I also don't agree with your point about having the most lethal army.
After all, the US is the only country to ever launch a nuclear bomb at another country. And they had plans to throw one at Vietnam, Korea and China as well.
I don't think that the US should be allowed to hold any more nuclear weapons, the US government is the crazy, out-of-control political power that should not have nukes.
The idea that supporting and helping Genocide does not count as fascist is also baffling to me. A lot of people seem to wonder what they would have done if they were a German in Nazi Germany. I think this makes it very clear what you position would have been, you would not have cared, not even a little bit.
All your other points were already answered enough in the previous comment, so i won't waste time. You are pretending not to understand, and that's fine. Especially because a see a clear difference in effort between us, I have to provide sources for everything, you can just make up stuff on the spot, no citations, no quotes, no nothing. And I can see that your understanding of geopolitics is entirely vibe-based and your understanding of how the world works is elementary at best.
I would not be surprised to find out that you are one of the people that only reads the headlines of articles and believes in the "Horseshoe theory". But I guess that's very common for blue MAGAs.
Honestly you are deeply unserious.
It is a huge material difference to the American soldiers who would be sent to fight and their families.
Perhaps you need to examine yourself for weaknesses to propaganda, because it is 100% true Harris wants peace between Palestine and Israel.
Harris says she won't give up pushing for end to Israel-Gaza war
Harris says two-state solution, end of Israel-Hamas war is crucial
Kamala Harris vows to end war in Gaza during final Michigan rally
And everyone should have a unicorn and an endless chocolate fountain. No nation should have nukes, but that's the reality. As long as they exist, mutually assured destruction is the only realistic policy to prevent their use.
Fascism is a specific political philosophy.
I've done this long enough to know citation is a waste of time in this conversation because either A) you won't look at it or B) you'll make up some excuse it's not valid.
Imagine saying something so absurd and then calling the other person unserious...
The Democrats didn't turn out to vote for Kamala, so yes, you can still blame the Democrats.