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I don't know about y'all, but if I grew up in a country that never has the news criticizing its leaders, I'd be very skepical and deduce that there is censorshop going on and the offical news could be exaggerated or entirely falsified. Do people in authoritarian countries actually just eat the propaganda? To what extent do they believe the propaganda?

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[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

Critical thinking is a skill, not an inborn gift. You may end up better at it than someone else by virtue of some as-yet-unknown genetic or epigenetic factor, but only if you both learn the skills and practice them.

Worse, even with learning and practice everyone fucks up at least a little. Even if the only place they fuck up is thinking that because they have the skill and practice that they can't fuck up.

We're all fucking meat bags filled with hormones and chemicals. That shit will override every bit of common sense and critical thinking that's ever existed. Not every time, but eventually, and more than once in your life.

Propaganda is only propaganda if you aren't part of the institution generating it. If you're a random asshole in fascistan, or whatever, chances are that the propaganda is just noise, the same way commercials or waves crashing are. There's no need to think critically if all you want to do is coast and get by.

So they "believe" it in roughly the same way that people believe if they work hard, they can achieve anything they want. Even if they know better, what's the alternative? Seeing reality and still being stuck in the same place? Nah, even the ones that have practiced thoroughly aren't fucking around most of the time. Why would they bother if they apply that critical thinking and realize nobody really gives a fuck as long as they aren't too hungry, and the worst stuff is happening in some letter town? They wouldn't. It's too fucking depressing.

Also, you assume that critical thinking can overcome a lack of information. The "news" is always the news. If you have no other sources of data, critical thinking doesn't apply until something contradicts that news. If you control what people see and hear, you control the people. There won't be enough opposition to matter, if you've set up your regime right.

[-] steeznson@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Social media is designed to override your critical thinking faculties.

Human beings aren't evolved to get news/information from such a wide variety of sources at such a fast rate. Your critical thinking faculties just get overrun.

Everyone has experienced this and accidentally shared an article from The Onion or whatever without noticing in the short term that they are responding to some kind of bias being confirmed.

[-] Triasha@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

The average person has lots of critical thinking.

It's just not a life hack to truth. You can critical think yourself into any conclusion. The average person uses critical thinking to reinforce their biased instead of challenge them.

[-] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

That's not critical thinking at all. Critical thinking is process that questions assertions and sources, and approaches them objectively. If it is ultimately just confirming your own bias, you haven't used critical thinking.

[-] joel_feila@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

But what if i started with something true?

Example I was raised being told the earth was round. After watching some flat earth debates i did learn a lot about old experiments the show the earth is round. All critical thinking could do os just re confirm my starting belief

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[-] Triasha@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

This is a no true scottsman on critical thinking.

I'm going to copy my reply to Barney above.

We have all sorts of evidence for conflicting conclusions. Most of us do not have the time or resources get a lock on which evidence is truly trustworthy.

If you talk to a flat earther, or a dedicated follower of the oppossing political team, you will see they understand faulty sources, chains of logic, and deductive reasoning, they just only apply them in support of their position.

You can teach a person about bias in research or media and they will use that knowledge to discredit positions they don’t agree with.

You can say “that’s not critical thinking” and on one hand I agree, but teaching more thourough critical thinking skills won’t have the result we want: for people to make evidence based decisions about their life and society.

In my experience, Getting people to change their minds requires engaging their emotions. Decisions are made on the basis or shame, fear, anger, and more rarely, love, hope, and empathy.

The evidence needs to be there to support the emotion, but nobody ever changes their behavior on the strength of the evidence alone.

[-] barneypiccolo@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

nobody ever changes their behavior on the strength of the evidence alone.

Simply not true, at all. People change behavior based on evidence all the time.

Critical Thinking requires a totally objective perspective, and emotion has no place in it.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'd be very skepical and deduce that there is censorshop going on and the offical news could be exaggerated or entirely falsified

After you realise you are a hostage, what's the "good" response, in your opinion? Protest and get surpressed? Start a partisan group, and be afraid for your life 24/7? Join the surpressors for small benefits for your and yours, at the peril of others? Play along with the idea to "change it from the inside"?

[-] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Probably nothing revolutionary.

But if you don't believe the propaganda, you'd probably enjoy life more.

For example: there literally a list of steam games that some far-right nutjob compiled that declares a lot of games to be "Woke" or "DEI". Imagine how much fun they miss out on because they are so far up the kool aid cult and actually refuses to play those games.

And other times, it can save you from a lot of misery and perhaps save your life. See: Anti-Vax and Anti-Science propaganda. If you are able to see through that bullshit, you wouldn't die from a stupid horse dewormer or other psudoscience crap.

"You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy this body, but you will never imprison my mind." -Mahatma Gandhi

The fight might not be right here, right this moment, but you can pass along the torch, the spirit.

Teach your children to be skeptical of the authorities, and be vigilent of propaganda. If they are getting involved in a "Hitler Youth" equivalvent, you'd intervene and stop them.

Treach kindness and empathy, but also decisiveness when the time comes to stand against injustice.

And also, pick your fights carefully, do not do this alone. Do not become a foolish dead hero, become a successful revolutionary. (Underground Movements)

Don't let them imprison your mind.

TLDR: The best you can do is just refuse to regurgitate the same propaganda. This is a passive thing that is, while subtle, an important part of the resistance.

[-] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Teach your children to be skeptical of the authorities, and be vigilent of propaganda.

I grew up in DDR. That act in itself is punishable. In mandatory state school, there was a lot "you live thanks to, and for others" propaganda. Teachers would get benefits if they succesfully got children to tell on their family, or their friends. The children who did so were lauded.

Would you trust your 8 year old kid to not tell his best friend what you talked about at home?

I think your imagination fails to understand the magnitute of surpressing a state can and will do. It's not just the state, and bad guys in it. It's everywhere. 1-in-3 people were informants to the stasi. Je stärker der Sozialismus, desto sicherer der Frieden.

[-] angrystego@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

I do think people without direct experience are unable to understand the depth or the totalitarian evil. It's just too terrifying to accept that one can be trully powerless, that any kind of resistance can lead not just to the destruction of themselves, but also their families, that the degree of bullying and control can be so high and the regard for human life so low.

It's too scary, so normal human minds just refuse it as a possibility and try to imagine more optimistic scenarios.

It's healthy not to lose hope, but it's also not good to underestimate the evil and unfair to look down on the people facing it.

[-] megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Propaganda, is a craft, it’s a whole world of tricks and manipulations. Not just censorship and positive stories about the leaders. It can get shockingly sophisticated. We usually only take note of the obvious and obtuse propaganda.

People aren’t dumb for believing it, it’s a whole field of figuring out how to convince people about things. Often if the propaganda doesn’t work on you, that’s because it’s not designed for you, or it has worked but the goal of it wasn’t what you thought it was.

[-] rikudou@lemmings.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yep. For example during the Soviet occupation here, the Colorado potato beetle got imported here somehow and given it doesn't have any natural predators, it destroyed potatoes like crazy.

Well, guess what? According to Soviet propaganda it was intentionally done by Americans to destroy our "paradise" and our food.

Everything bad that happened was because the evil imperialists worked against our paradise.

The country being so poor it couldn't afford enough toilet paper for its citizens? Westerners! All foreign fruit being very scarce and people standing in long lines to get it, while the ones in the back knew they probably aren't getting any today? Also westerners' fault. Meat being available only for the few lucky ones who came early, or were friends with the butcher? Yep, this one's on westerners too.

Propaganda is not the usual over-the-top stories, it's subtle. Would you today believe if someone told you that Americans have imported the Colorado potato beetle intentionally? And would you, if it was consistent with everything you've heard since you were a kid?

[-] seeigel@feddit.org 1 points 1 month ago

All foreign fruit being very scarce and people standing in long lines to get it, while the ones in the back knew they probably aren’t getting any today? Also westerners’ fault.

Do you know the history of the united fruit company? That one could be correct.

[-] LoveSausage@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 1 month ago

Lol authoritarian is such a non descriptice word. Like propaganda only is there at their bad countries we are so much better and have no propaganda at all.. most looks at the west to get tips for the best propaganda. Authoritarian is when stuff gets done.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago

Do you believe in religion? Do you believe in any home remedies? Do you eat the same foods you grew up with?

It's a very rare person that questions literally everything and logically analyzes why they think what they think.

[-] communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 0 points 1 month ago

What does eating the same foods you grew up with have to do with it?

i try all new things even bugs, but some foods I grew up with are delicious

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago

Did you choose to eat meat? What's your logic? Which animals? Would you eat dog?

[-] communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Did you choose to eat meat?

Yes.

What’s your logic?

There is none, I wholly accept that it is entirely illogical and unethical. I am addicted to the flavor. If I could have the flavors and textures without the killing i would switch in a heartbeat, however.

Which animals?

Any so long as it is delicious. Even human as long as the human wanted it and was not killed for the meat.

Would you eat dog?

Yes. It's no different than pig in my eyes.

These questions probably don't work on me because I was raised in a vegan/vegetarian restaurant as a child.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago

They work perfectly actually. You have a proper grasp of your situation. I do question your moral choice of putting flavor above killing, but you get the concept and have put the thought in.

That was my original point. The VAST majority of people never question their diet. You did. That's rare.

My own choice to be vegetarian has it's own moral issues, but my thought is that: if I have to sit in a box 10 hours and a day work to survive in capitalism, I won't expect less from farm animals.

[-] communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 0 points 1 month ago

I do question your moral choice of putting flavor above killing

To be clear, I do not. What I'm doing is morally wrong, in fact, it's morally terrible, but I do it anyway.

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[-] _LordMcNuggets_@feddit.org -2 points 1 month ago

I've learnt this the hard way, but ALWAYS (LITERALLY FUCKING ALWAYS) assume you're the smartest in the room. People are dumb as fuck on average.

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this post was submitted on 03 May 2025
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