Germany got a 'right on red' with reunification - it is allowed when there's a small sign on the light that explicitly allows it. In any event even if it is allowed "stop sign" rules apply.

Interestingly the number of lights with such a sign drops each year (after a peak in the 90s) because of higher than normal accident rates and other drivers honking the horn if one driver does not choose to use the "right on red" (which is perfectly fine, you are free to wait till the light is green, turning on red is only an option)

After all for German cities right on red has rather been disappointing

Yes absolutely. Also the problems of right on red are solved by bettee designs of the streets themselves. Dedicated, separate bicycle lanes. Curb bulbs. Raised pedestrian crossings. Stop lines farther back from the intersection.

Flashing red is stop sign procedures here. Some, but not enough problematic places have no right on red signs which often get ignored. I mainly have issue with trying to go right on green but that's when people are crossing, and when I have no choice but to drive near the stadium during a game or concert and people cross endlessly regardless of signals. We really need a separate all way pedestrian sequence in busy intersections and intersections with only 3 crossings at least, and some kind way of ensuring no actions are taken in a pedestrian only phase.

to wait 2 minutes on red when there isn’t a car or human within a 5 mile radius.

that sounds like a signaling issue? Using shorter signal cycles, tighten up the intersection and use medians for two stage ped crossings, more detection, better monitoring and remote adjustments can all make it so you don't need to wait long at all.

(Edit: If it's done really well it can actually be better than allowing turns on red, because the signal can detect you and give you a green if there's nobody around before you've even come to a stop)

It also would be more better for the driving experience if it was consistent everywhere. When I'm driving, all these hodgepodge no turn on red signs is exhausting. I wish it was just banned everywhere (with better signals).

Some places are getting much better with signaling too. When I leave my hometown (Madison WI) I'm always amazed how long and annoying the time waiting at a traffic light is.

There's a light next to where i used to live that, like you suggested, used the flashing to indicate when right turns were allowed. I liked it especially since there was a lot of pedestrian traffic during the day but basically none at night (and was thus able to handle the different needs of the road depending on time of day), and it was a really intuitive way to let drivers know what the pedestrian signals were doing. Best part was it was for a right-turn-only lane, and had flashing-yellow (no green at all) to remind you to check for pedestrians and bikes.

And when you legally stop at a red light, people will lay on their horn behind you because there's no cross-traffic, even if it is a blanket "no right turn on red".

Yeah they did that where I live. I get it that it's work hours but the text was so small! As a driver it's hard to tell.

Didn’t realize it was so controversial!

If by controversial you mean dangerous, then yes, it is. It is one of the main ways in which pedestrians are killed in North America. In most developed countries it is illegal.

It's problematic at best, dangerously stupid at worst.

• It introduces a conflict point between traffic coming from the left heading straight and traffic intending to turn right.
• The driver that wants to turn right has to look very far to the left and to the right.
• The driver that wants to turn right has to determine if they have the right of way.

In most European countries (maybe all), right-turning lanes often have an additional signal that allows cars to turn right even if the main signal is red. It serves the same purpose as right-on-red, but eliminates the issues I've listed because it's green only when traffic from the left is stopped.

A person turning right on red fundamentally lacks right of way: when someone doing that gets in a collision, it was inherently an illegal right turn without the law changing. I don't see how changing the law from one kind of that turn being illegal to another would change the risks in any meaningful way.

The city I live added the right to turn right on red as I was still a pedestrian. And I clearly saw the difference in danger of crossing the streets. Now ad a driver I don't understand why so many drivers are in such a rush to buch up at the next red light. Here at least, you are supposed to do a complete stop for 4 seconds while checking both side before going only if it is safe to do so. But I see cars go right without even slowing down that much, and they will go even if a car is incoming thinking that they will slow down to let them pass. It's so infuriating. Impatience is so dangerous.

Another pro-car law that you can only see in North America. After 10 years here, coming from Europe, I still feel iffy every time I turn right on red.

Don't read the comments. You'd think gasoline was still leaded with the aggressive position commenters are taking.

TBF you are supposed to stop first

Of course, it's because countries that allow this don't care about pedestrians.

@christophski

@Moonrise2473

Except, it does mean stop—and then proceed when safe…

The driver is legally supposed to stop, and look.

The problem is they have to accept they have no right of way, and need to check far in both directions, making it potentially dangerous.

As always, the BEST solution is to just get the pedestrians and cyclists away from the cars with better design, but that isn't always practical.

Unfortunately as a pedestrian although you may have the right of way, that doesn't really matter. Your neighbor is a multi thousand pound metal sled. Never normalize bring near such a machine. I think of it line standing next to a running wood chipper... I'd always be very cautious near that, why not moving cars.

We also have intersections with dedicated pedestrian green light. All cars stop and pedestrians can cross any direction. Allowing cars to enter a busy intersection when pedestriana are in it is insane, especially if the driver has to look one way for vehicles and the opposite way for people.

MTL + NYC.

Get on board everyone else!

In Germany it's solved like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Gr%C3%BCner_Pfeil.jpg/440px-Gr%C3%BCner_Pfeil.jpg

No green arrow means it's disallowed to turn right on red.