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A real question about trans athletes and records (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 1 month ago by ooo@sh.itjust.works to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
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It’s almost time to delete my account so I am sticking my neck out to potentially getting blasted.

I will preface by stating that gender identity is not an issue for me. Be who you want, use whatever bathroom you want. Just wash your hands/paws/tentacles.

My ignorant question is: for transgender athletes in competitive sports, should records be categorized differently or asterisked? Isn’t it kind of like using performance-enhancing drugs?

I don’t mind about actually competing, however if someone had 5-10 years of hormonal growth advantage during puberty, even if they no longer have that advantage, it seems like a big gray area. Yes, someone could naturally have that chemical makeup. Similarly, some exceptionally elite athletes have genetic variations that give them natural physical advantage.

When I was in school I was decent at swimming, in the top 5% of men. If I competed against women I would be like top 0.01% and making a career out of it. Though, if I started setting records I don’t know how I’d feel about it, given my advantage.

Honestly, writing these thoughts down is giving me some existential dread. What does it mean to be human, and why? Does anything even really matter?

I hope everyone has a nice day and is kind to each other.

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[-] Mac@mander.xyz 8 points 1 month ago

I don't speak for trans people or make any decisions but here's my thoughts:

No, because the people who hold records are already freaks of nature. The common example is Phelps who is biologically built different.
Or cyclists with a VO2 max that is literally unattainable by normies.
Or quarterbacks with vision better than everyone else.
Or, or, or

We're already allowing people with unfair advantages to win everything, why would allowing trans people to compete suddenly change things—especially when they aren't even winning everything?

You know what I'm fine with? A playerbase that is regulated to only accept those who are biologically average.
Them's some sports i might actually watch, tell yew whut

[-] Witchfire@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'll add, as a trans person with the athleticism of a rock, about 75% of the sports debate is coming from transphobes. I'd be more ok with discussing the nuance if most discussions weren't laden with a dump truck full of transphobia. The proof of this is that they're fighting to get trans people banned from darts and chess. Also most people who claim that it's about protecting women spend all their spare time attacking women (both cis and trans)

[-] Hegar@fedia.io 2 points 1 month ago

My understanding is that there is absolutely no evidence that trans women have an advantage. Once hormone therapy has been going for a while performance shows no statistical difference from women assigned female at birth. I was listening to a report on the radio just yesterday.

Additionally the number of trans athletes is incredibly small.

I've heard that the greatest correlation with Olympic medal tally is the amount of state funding for sports and sport sciences. If we're going to asterisk any records, it should probably be for everyone from wealthy countries.

[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago

That's a really salient point - there are a lot of other impediments to "fairness" which are much more relevant.

[-] Hegar@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago

Yep, the "fairness" argument is a transparent figleaf for intentional persecution.

[-] FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au -1 points 1 month ago

My understanding is that there is absolutely no evidence that trans women have an advantage.

Your understanding is very incorrect.

[-] damnedfurry@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago

My understanding is that there is absolutely no evidence that trans women have an advantage.

Going from 554th place pre-transition to 5th place post-transition doesn't line up with that claim.

[-] Hegar@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago

Your link is just to this post, but after searching I believe you're talking about Lia Thomas. That's a single example so not necessarily representative.

"FACT: Trans athletes do not have an unfair advantage in sports.”

"After one year of hormone therapy, trans women performed better in sports than cis women. After two years, their performance was largely equalized.”

"...finding that trans women athletes are at a relative disadvantage in many key physical areas relating to athletic ability... than their cisgender counterparts."

[-] FalseTautology@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 month ago

Lol giving a fucking shit about fucking sports records as the world burns around you. Cool priorities. All this shit is stupid smoke and mirrors nonsense distracting you from the many actual problems we are facing. Wasting a single micro second on these concerns is a fucking crime against humanity. A) sports are fucking dumb and B) we are at the precipice of the end of the world stop worrying about something as asinine as world records and maybe worry about something that fucking matters. JFC.

[-] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

I personally don't think sports should be gendered, or bathroom for that matter.

[-] Nougat@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago

It's not even a real issue. The number of trans athletes is extremely small, and none of them are out there setting crazy records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_sports

[-] damnedfurry@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago

The fact that the University of Pennsylvania swimmer [Lia Thomas] soared from a mid-500s ranking (554th in the 200 freestyle; all divisions) in men’s competition to one of the top-ranked swimmers in women’s competition tells the story

In the 100 freestyle, Thomas’ best time prior to her transition was 47.15. At the NCAA Championships, she posted a prelims time in the event of 47.37. That time reflects minimal mitigation of her male-puberty advantage.

During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle. As her career at Penn wrapped, she moved to fifth, first and eighth in those respective events on the women’s deck.

It may not be an issue to you, but it's an issue to every woman whose ranking is lower as a result. I imagine it especially hurts if you're pushed out of first place in that way.

[-] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 1 points 1 month ago

Wow, the 200m freestyle, the 500m freestyle, and the 1650m freestyle, huh? Did she ever compete in anything else, or were those numbers perhaps cherry-picked to make the situation look more dramatic than it actually is? Because if you look at her results holistically, she's a very good swimmer, but she's clearly not dominating 100% of the time the way she's been portrayed.

At the NCAA competition where Thomas won one (1) race that conservatives cried and shit their pants over, a cis woman named Kate Douglass set 18 new records. Lia Thomas set zero new records. And crunching the rest of the numbers bears this out: she was a good swimmer before and after transition, but she's not some unbeatable powerhouse that cis women have no chance at winning against.

[-] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

were those numbers perhaps cherry-picked to make the situation look more dramatic than it actually is?

If anyone can go from 554th to 5th in any sport/event just by competing among the other sex, nothing else changing, then that obviously indicates something. You can't handwave that away.

Her personal 100m freestyle time dropping less than a quarter of a second post-transition is honestly a bigger indicator that transition is not making a substantial difference, because that angle completely removes the 'chance' element in your opponents being different people.

this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2025
9 points (90.9% liked)

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