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Just a little thought I wanna discuss.

Unlike the more massive social media or the real world where theres not many leftists and we are gladly more united Lemmy and its left leaning tendencies with the instances providing natural cult grouping tendencies. Add to that the matrix in groups there and we all seem to be making a thing out of how to anger each other. How to troll each other or annoy x or y instance.

I hate this.

Living in an extreme right wing nation I know no other anarchist. A few left wingers. Even the libs here are right wing extremists by the standards of a western nation. I hold dear any solidarity.

I support unions here even when everyone there is a religious fundamentalist who wants sharia law bc they still qantnto improve the conditions of the working class.

Many folks here, who again I don't have any hate for, I see intending these fights and dramas. Having the goal to be banned from x or y community or instance.

  • Why!?!?
  • What do you gain?
  • What is the desire here??
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[-] Skiluros@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

Might be worth looking at the behaviour of so called leftists on Lemmy.

Many of them openly support and cheer for russia's invasion of Ukraine and support summary killing of Ukrainians ("summary executions in Bucha [and beyond] is a BIA conspiracy!!!" is not a serious statement), openly state that Ukraine does not have the right to self-determination and generally support the extermination of Ukrainian culture, language and identity.

I am from Ukraine, from Donbas (Lugansk) no less. What sort of reaction do you expect when you see alleged leftists cheers for the total occupation of Lugansk by the Russians with BS like "Lugansk is free of da Nasizzz !1!1!".

Or what about Jeromy Corbyn fanboys denying Corbyn's open support for russian genocidal imperialism (keep in mind these type of things get reported in Ukrainian media)? The fucker literally worked for Russia Today (which is managed by russian intel) and cheered the annexation of Crimea in 2014.

As far as I am concerned, I hope all tankies meet the same fate as "Donbas Cowboy", Russell Bentley.

Bentley’s wife, Lyudmila, then claimed that Russian soldiers from a tank battalion abducted him.

According to the Investigative Committee, Vansyatsky, Agaltsev, and Iordanov tortured Bentley on April 8, and he died shortly afterward.

Vansyatsky and Agaltsev are suspected of blowing up a car with Bentley’s body in it and ordering Bazhin to get rid of what was left of his remains.

Is this an unreasonable reaction to disgusting tankies? What reaction do you expect?

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

openly state that Ukraine does not have the right to self-determination

It was my understanding that the USSR insisted that its constituent republics were independent. Maybe the tankies need to revisit that.

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[-] NoTagBacks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago

Yeah, the support of a blatantly fascist/imperialist state like Putin's Russia by self-described leftists is absolutely wild to me. I'm not convinced they're serious people. Like, yeah, there's some silly infighting between leftists online, but from my experience, it's usually tankies saying some smug bullshit blanket statements and defending authoritarian douchecanoes.

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[-] whaleross@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Nobody hates leftists like other leftists with a slightly different flavour of leftism. This is by tradition as long as the leftist discourse has been up. Plenty of people find it unthinkable with nuances or compromises even for communal goals that would benefit everybody.

Add to this that social media is inherently toxic and anonymity brings out the absolute worst in many people to spew hate for slight differences in opinion.

It's too bad but I'd recommend you to not get caught up in it and don't let it get to you. People are people and the chances that they will change in any foreseeable future are small. Keep doing what you think is positive and constructive and don't let others make you disappointed.

[-] SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago

I just feel like the parent in the room half the time lol

[-] hypna@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

It would be interesting to learn something about the demographics on Lemmy.

I usually liken the bad vibes on Lemmy to being stuck with a bunch of cynical teenagers. Nothing is ever good enough, nothing good can happen. They know this with absolute certainty.

I am also probably older than average here.

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[-] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Right wingers will be like, "Well he's racist but we agree on taxes and the gays so he's all right with me."

Left wingers will be like, "We disagree on one of the 100 most important issues to me, therefore you are my enemy!"

[-] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 month ago

"I'd rather die alone shot down by a fascist than teaming up with this pal that do not share 100% of my vision on what this dead dude did 100 years ago"

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[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

I’m kind of surprised to not see this answer, so I’ll throw it in: it seems to me that there are a lot of people from various countries who have built-in language for politics that they believe is shared across the world - but it isn’t.

As a dumb American, I’ve always been a liberal because that was the inclusive, progressive, luxury-gay-space-communism option as opposed to the conservative, regressive, racist, ignorant violent option. People from other countries don’t seem to appreciate that at all, because their “liberal” is what we’d call neoliberal or corporate Democrat, and they apparently don’t have a FPTP / Slaver’s College fix on their elections and they just don’t grok the two party thing.

As you can imagine on here there’s a lot of hate from both conservatives and leftists for “liberals”. I think that’s ridiculous but it’s usually easier to try and adopt their definitions than to explain why the other 379,999,999 of us don’t use it that way. (Well - 350M, say. Parts of the PNW use it that way too.). It’s just kind of exhausting in threads about American politics.

If someone calls me a “liberal” (or libtard, libcuck, etc) I naturally assume they’re racist, fascist, AM radio fuckwits. But then they want to jump into some world where H4A, UBI, No Oil is what they’re all about and once again I’m like - well, yeah we agree, again. So.

(Usually the retort is, “well then why are you a liberal?!” Which. Goes back to the exhausting thing.)

[-] SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago

The most important point of unity for the left is the economics. Political identity must be defined by being the proletariat first and foremost.

When you have people who break that, well their place is questioned.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Mmm hmmm. Yeah. Yes.

So an American proletariat is . . . Anyone who is limited by health insurance, student loans, and mortgage rates? Or is it something else?

We don’t really use the word proletariat, uh, at all. Ever.

[-] SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago

In a very basic sense (and this may very well be debated but to explain it simply I'll say): anyone who doesn't own their own labour, as in you work for someone else.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

That’s pretty much every liberal I know, yeah.

Well. I know some house painters I guess. They don’t work for someone else, per se.

[-] SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago

Yeah being part of smth and identifying as smth are two separate things.

I'm a man, straight, brown, proletariat etc. The question is what part of that do I see as the most fundamental part of my identity or politics.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Hm. Well, that’s interesting.

[-] SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago

This is also where the concept of alienation in the Marxist sense comes in. He took Hegel's framework, which Feuerbach and Bauer had used to analyse religion and he applied that to law and economics.

So this Marxist alienation which is in the Hegelian tradition is worth reading.

Now alienation can interestingly also be a desired outcome in leftist movements as the French existentialists talked about.

We also have a third brand of alienation in Buddhism etc.

Some want it some hate it.

I'm with Marx on this one.

If you are interested I can find some introductory article for you to take a look at.

[-] zerofk@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 month ago

To me as a European, posts and comments about US politics can be very confusing. There’s the different interpretation on the word liberal you mentioned. There’s also the fact that the colours are reversed: here red is for the left - socialists and communists - while blue is the liberal right (not so much conservative right, though there are conservative subgroups of the “blues”). And there’s the fact that they often assume familiarity with political events and people unknown to me.

Somewhat related: posts and comments from the far and extreme left are often even more incomprehensible. They seem to have their own language entirely.

[-] thoro@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago

Liberalism has an actual definition. Neoliberalism is a subset of liberalism. Either way, neither position is socialist and both are capitalist. That's the distinction. That's always been the distinction. Leftist politics is distinctly anti capitalist.

To leftists, liberalism, even progressive liberalism, can never address the material concerns for workers, inequal accumulation, and capitalism's contradictions because it cannot attack the central tenet of its ideology: the private ownership of land and resources. And most of the social stuff was being advocated by leftist groups in the west for years before they became popular enough for the mainstream, liberal parties to embrace.

I'm an American. Conflating liberalism with leftism is a media game that has successfully ensured the Overton window does not shift left. It reveals the mass political ignorance here. Of the policies you've listed, only H4A is arguably socialist.

You can understand the two party system and make decisions to support certain candidates/policies in an election without identifying as a liberal.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

To leftists, liberalism, even progressive liberalism, can never address the material concerns for workers, inequal accumulation, and capitalism's contradictions because it cannot attack the central tenet of its ideology: the private ownership of land and resources.To leftists, liberalism, even progressive liberalism, can never address the material concerns for workers, inequal accumulation, and capitalism's contradictions because it cannot attack the central tenet of its ideology: the private ownership of land and resources.

Well put, and yes I’d agree. Where I seem to draw the ire of leftists is when I point to the clock and say we have one year before we have to vote, and all things being equal we’re going to vote for the Democrats because attacking the central tenet of this country’s dominant ideology is not going to happen in this election cycle.

The 2024 Presidential election threads were a depressing reminder that some leftists can’t get out of their heads, or ivory towers, or whatever to make incremental progress because the glorious revolution is at hand. Or something. So I get to be the evil liberal who wants healthcare for all, student loan forgiveness, and a Green New Deal. And all of those things go down the shitter because republiQans vote as a single juggernaut bloc and we don’t.

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago

I'm not a fan of the infighting either. It's a very online kind of tribalism. I'm pretty active in anarchist organizing where I live and routinely have people from all sorts of tendencies showing up to help out without it devolving into a struggle session over factional infighting from a hundred years ago.

Just from the time I've spent here it seems like it's specifically the people occupying the centrist liberal positions who are most invested in fostering a culture of leftist infighting

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

I have tried to talk to anarchists here, as I feel there is potentially something to it, but it always ends up with "read this and shut up libtard"-like posts. A shame, we should welcome different opinions and angles seing things, not always try to "convert" everyone to some very specific thing. IMO.

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago

you have been pretty anti-communist every time we've intracted, on top of calling me a tankie. not surprised you're having trouble with people welcoming your different opinion

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

PS. If you're not a pro authoritarian please accept my apologies.

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[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Oh I see, it is I who have to "welcome a different option".

Most of "communism" here on lemmy is either hardcore stalin/lenin/mao authoritarian ruling or it is some sort of workers dictatorship. What's not to criticise? And when you try to discuss you get downvoted and people act aggressively, or so I feel.

I also does not know what that has to do with anarchism?

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Oh I see, it is I who have to “welcome a different option”.

reread my comment, not what I said. Maybe if you're less quick to call people tankies you might not get called a liberal in response.

I consider a workers dictatorship to be a lesser evil compared to the dictatorship of capital we live in currently.

I also does not know what that has to do with anarchism?

To put it simply, anarchists want to abolish hierarchy, communists want to abolish private property. They overlap when you want both. Liberals tend to oppose dismantling both of those things.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Okay, like I'd love everyone getting together well, but I know it won't happen, but I can still try, and maybe make the world a little better.

Your ideas are absolutists, there is no possible gradation, and even taken one by one they are insane idea that has never worked, and you want both? How is that even going to work? No property, no rulers, I mean good luck with that.

It's just not possible to have a serious conversation here, so I wish you luck!

Cheers

Edit: well look at all that civilised discussion right here! Ah no? Only anonymous downvotes without any reason? Who would have thought...

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 month ago

you: "It's impossible to have a serious conversation here, so I wish you luck!"

me: okay, I won't bother responding

you: "woe is me, nobody responded, only downvotes"

idk what you expected tbh

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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2025
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