There's an old saying in Tennessee... I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee— that says, fool me once, shame on—shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.
W. that you?


The contrast between it and Superman couldn't be more stark
Superman is a movie with a clear idea or what it is and a real message while Fantastic Four seemed even more afraid to say anything about anything than the MCU usually is
Superman was pretty open about it's anti fascist politics and it's easy to draw parallels between the villains of the movie and the real life tech billionaires and war criminals currently committing genocide while I couldn't find any message in Fantastic Four other than maybe a really weird anti abortion message
every fantastic four adaptation is bad. I bet the comics aren't even good but knowing about the movies and cartoons i'm not about to read them.
every fantastic four adaptation is bad.
Except for The Incredibles of course.
we used to call those spoofs
I know the fantastic four become more serious over time but no matter what happens I always associate fantastic four with the dorky 60s comic where Reed Richards was really sexist.
I think the FF work better when they lean into it's more silly and ridiculous aspects. Personally the 60s run by Jack and Stan and then the 90s run with Weringo and Waid were my two favorite runs because they didn't take themselves too seriously.
Nobody said this movie is bad.
Its enjoyable but it feels like Kevin Feige himself stepped into the movie and tell the director to keep it safe and promote "traditional" family values.
They made a silver surfer a woman just so Johnny can flirt with her.
The character has existed since 1968...
I didn't mind that they used Shalla Bal instead of Norrin Raad, but it was a little silly that they just had Johnny flirting with her the whole movie because she's "a hot silver alien chick on a surfboard durr hurr hurr". I actually liked Shalla Bal as Surfer personally.
It wasn't that good, but I watched it anyway. My mum really likes Marvel movies. I don't watch Marvel films because I like American superhero film slop, I don't. I watch them because they're usually mediocre, not abysmal, and it's an excuse to go to the movie theater with my mum and dad.
Thank you, I have it downloaded, but maybe I'll just delete it instead of wasting those two hours. I'm not a fan of Marvel to begin with, and the best thing that's been even close was Toxic Avenger. Also not great, but better than any of the Marvel movies I've seen in the last fifteen years.
There's two somewhat good character moments (Johnny and Sue) but I wouldn't say that it's worth it just for those. I honestly wished I'd watched something else. For those 'must see moments' I just watch a clip on youtube. That's what I did for the Illuminati scene in Dr. Strange, and even that wasn't that great, and probably will do te same for Avengers Doomsday (especially after this). The last battle is a spectacle but it's not super thrilling imho. I really just wanted to see Galactus (which they did do justice, at least with character and design) but it was ho-hum at best. It's a shame because I did expect more from the most iconic story in FF history.
Edit: Watch Superman if you want a genuinely fun superhero experience with great scenes and character moments.
Depends on if you consider mediocre to slight-above-medicore a waste of 2 hours. It's competent and not exactly bad. And if you actually like the Fantastic Four they're not doing wholesale character assassinations (although I have not read any FF in like... 20 years?) which instantly makes it the best FF film of this century. Also Pedro Pascal is in it, which was 80% of the reason I went to see it.
It's true it's the best they've done with FF and the casting is (pun intended) fantastic, I just felt the script let them down as characters. Yeah, they felt and acted like the FF but the scenes beteween characters were largely uninteresting and uninspired imho. But yes, I think Pedro was the best realized character in the movie next to Johnny followed by Ben, I felt Sue didn't really have as clearly defined as a character. She did have a great moment at the end of the movie though.
I think they were hamstrung by the fact that there were 2 franchises before this one, so they didn't rehash the group's relationship and chemistry with one another as much. Just jumped into the mundane every day life. Having dinners, appearing on TV, completely mid banter, etc.
If it were about a romantic relationship instead of the FF, they fast forwarded through the meet cute, the dating period, the wedding, the honeymoon and skipped straight to the content old couple. Which isn't bad, just less compelling.
Honestly, I was more entertained than bored while watching it, but I don't think I'll think about this film ever again after this year. Pleasantly surprising for current year Marvel Slop.
Watched the Falcon movie at a friend's house a couple months after seeing FF because she actually loves the slop and I thought "hey 4 gin and tonics should get me pliable enough to find at least a couple of the jokes funny" and it turns out it was a """serious""" political thriller and also you need to have watched a Netflix series and also the Eternals to understand. The whole time I was thinking "what the fuck are these characters doing" and "why are they doing this now" and "who the fuck is this character" and so on. Fantastic Four may as well have been Martin Scorsese next to that movie.
Yeah, I think that's what it was for me, the fact that they didn't really show the character's relationships on any meaningful level. There should have at least been some short montage showing Reed/Sue getting married, maybe one of Johnny and Ben's bigger fights (they are friends in the comics but have a rocky relationship at times). They were casted great but we didn't get to see any real character moments from them that showed how they all get along, the closest we got was Reed and Sue arguing because of Reed's impersonal at times, practical parsing of a situation and the facts without thought for emotion, and even that was fairly more tepid than what you'd see in the comics.
For me, the bottom line is, I feel like the Marvel movies have this generic tone that I just can't get past. It's like how Marvel and DC have had "house styles" at times where the comic artists draw the comic in a fairly similar way making the comics feel homogeneous.
Just watch at like 2x speed on a second monitor, and it's better.
after DC killing it with Superman
watched it tonight and it was so awful so I can't wait to see how bad FF4 is
Eh, to each their own. I am biased though too, I'm a huge Superman fan myself and felt he was done justice for the first time since the 1979 movie really.
I felt like i watched him get his ass kicked for 2 hours straight, the plot was dumb and the "wow it's just like Israel and Palestine" comments 100000% over sold the Boravia/Jarhanpur thing, the only real connection being "white/euro coded U.S. ally invading Indian coded 'bad country'"
Oversold? It was literally a stronger, US backed country, trying to slaughter the citizens of Jaranpur so that Boravia could annex it and Lex could make billions in real estate. It's an analog to the damn Trump seeking a real etate deal through Israel annexing Palestine and slaughtering it's citizens dynamic to a t. Hell, even the president of Boravia was a not so subtle pastiche of Netanyahu.
And yeah, he was getting his ass kicked because Lex cloned him and then stacked the deck in his favor by literally analyzing Superman's moves for years ao he could counteract his every xtion against the clone. I'm not going to say you have to like the movie but those are pretty weak points.
Oversold? It was literally a stronger, US backed country, trying to slaughter the citizens of Jaranpur so that Boravia could annex it
And that's really literally it, any feeling of "wow this was meant to represent Israel/Palestine" is you heavily reading into it things that are not there. There's no real comparison to the settlement or the apartheid or anything. It's just "U.S. ally wants to annex random country" and that U.S. ally is, again, eastern European coded, there really is nothing whatsoever in the movie to make you go "wow, Boravia is just like Israel!"
Honestly it makes all the zionists pissing their pants over the movie that much more ridiculous, like the guy whose kid supposedly asked him why Superman is anti Israel while watching, because like, there really is nothing aesthetically or politically similar outside of "U.S. ally wants to annex country." It's like watching literally any bad guys in a movie and going "wow it's just like us fr fr"
Going into this movie thinking it is going to be an actual indictment of Israel genociding Palestine or the U.S.'s relationship with it is going to leave anyone expecting that incredibly disappointed
And yeah, he was getting his ass kicked because Lex cloned him and then stacked the deck in his favor by literally analyzing Superman's moves for years ao he could counteract his every xtion against the clone. I'm not going to say you have to like the movie but those are pretty weak points.
When it literally opens up with SUPERMAN coughing up blood i immediately went "oh this is why all those chuds hated this movie."
Superman isn't an idiot but he never once goes "hey, wait, that guy can hurt me, huh, i wonder why" 
Oh i forgot about how the movie never challenges Lex Luthor "recovering" his parents' "damaged" message, itt literally just ends with Mr Terrific going "boy i sure do trust those computer forensic nerds" like my man what the fuck is a computer nerd from earth going to know about Kryptonian video formats? They wouldn't even know enough to say shit one way or the other about the video being unaltered without like decades of independent study minimum
I'm glad you liked it but it was neither a good or fun movie for me. I like my anime protagonists to do more than get their shit rocked for a whole movie
And that's really literally it, any feeling of "wow this was meant to represent Israel/Palestine" is you heavily reading into it things that are not there. There's no real comparison to the settlement or the apartheid or anything. It's just "U.S. ally wants to annex random country" and that U.S. ally is, again, eastern European coded, there really is nothing whatsoever in the movie to make you go "wow, Boravia is just like Israel!"
I think you're splitting hairs here. Obviously the vast majority of people understood it to be a reference to the Israel/Palestine conflict hence why you and I are even talking about it. To be mad at a comic book movie for not giving some in-depth analysis of the Boravia/Jaranpur conflict and making a 1:1 representation of it with Israel/Palestine is missing the point. The movie did it's job in representing the conflict enough that people got the message loud and clear at what it was trying to say analogous to the real world. If you thought that it was superficial, fine, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it did it's job and people the world over are talking about what it really represents.
Superman isn't an idiot but he never once goes "hey, wait, that guy can hurt me, huh, i wonder why"
That's because when Ultraman originally shows up he's "The Hammer of Boravia", Superman didn't fight Ultraman until it was towards the end of the movie, and after fighting Ultraman in the sequence (probably a 10-15min fight in movie-world time) he figured it out pretty quick and had Krypto wreck Lex's drones.
Oh i forgot about how the movie never challenges Lex Luthor "recovering" his parents' "damaged" message, itt literally just ends with Mr Terrific going "boy i sure do trust those computer forensic nerds" like my man what the fuck is a computer nerd from earth going to know about Kryptonian video formats? They wouldn't even know enough to say shit one way or the other about the video being unaltered without like decades of independent study minimum
You're trying to apply real-world logic to a world that uses obvious comic book logic. Read a comic, that shit happens all the time, plus the Earth in a DC universe has waaaay more insanely, mind-boggingly, crazy beyond genius level intellects that these guys are making fucking alternate dimensions and portals to other worlds. In a world like that is it really so hard to believe? Plus, I don't think that that's the point, the point is that Superman's mission wasn't because the Kryptonians wanted him to be a good man, it's because he was raised by a loving Earth couple and chose to be a good man all on his own volition. I think that was a powerful statement. Trust me, as a Superman fan, I initially wasn't a fan of the message and the fact that it was taken so quickly at face value, but the more I thought about it the more I liked the dynamic that Superman is Superman not because of some pre-ordained destiny but because he decided on his own to be a beacon for hope.
I'm glad you liked it but it was neither a good or fun movie for me. I like my anime protagonists to do more than get their shit rocked for a whole movie
No worries, to each their own. We're all going to like different things for different reasons. Ironically the number one thing about Superman that people usually bitch about is that he is "too over-powered", and when he finally is given an opponent(s) that can actually hurt him people complain about that too. I thought it was refreshing to not just see Superman man-handling everything for a change, to show that despite how strong he is that he is still vulnerable.
the vast majority of people understood it to be a reference to the Israel/Palestine conflict hence why you and I are even talking about
The vast majority of people are fucking illiterate and they read shit into it that wasn't there, which is why it explicitly disappointed me. Anyone thinking "the director was commenting on Israel" is wish casting.
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Here's a list of tons of leftist movies.