Is "Papers, Please" inspired by real events or just the liberal perception of communist states? (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 1 year ago by AdmiralDoohickey@lemmygrad.ml to c/games@lemmygrad.ml

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I find it hard to believe that your family could starve to death just from some mistakes but I might be in the "too positively biased against AES" stage of my radicalization journey

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[-] sovietsnake@lemmygrad.ml 38 points 1 year ago

It is liberal propaganda, the game is fun, though, if you ignore it. I'd recommend more The Return of Obra Dinn which is another, much more superior, video game by Lucas Pope.

[-] Carrow@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago

Return of the Obra Dinn is probably one of the best games I've ever played. It is simply fantastic.

[-] sovietsnake@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 year ago

Indeed, I really loved their approach to languages and the gameplay is fantastic. I consumed it voraciously because it was so fascinating.

[-] Munrock@lemmygrad.ml 38 points 1 year ago

The border and migration controls are something socialist states do to protect workers and their economies. The "your family will starve if you fuck up" or "our laws are inhumane and we don't care; if you care you're fired" are absolutely propaganda.

[-] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 1 year ago

The propaganda is always projection too

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 1 year ago

Considering the amount of lies west put in their propaganda, it's hard to be "too positively biased" for AES.

[-] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 1 year ago

Very clearly obviously it’s propaganda based on the western projection that the commies were the same as Nazis and Nazis were famous for the “show your papers” thing.

Ironically the US police have always treated block people the way media represents the Nazis (and communists, inaccurately). Don’t ask Americans about why that’s ok but some old Soviet Union border guard asking for a passport was supposed to be representative of…anything more than what it always is

[-] Rondomi@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 1 year ago

This is one of my favorite games of all time, so I may be biased. The game portrays Arstotzka as a flawed country in decline yet still better for its people than every other country on the map. Seeing how the game takes place in the 80s, and that there's a revolutionary group who wishes to combat the corrupt and greedy and bring Arstotzka back to its prime, I'd say it tries to represent the declining Soviet Union.

[-] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Where is it set?

[-] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Arstotzka, a fictional country based off of the GDR by the looks of it.

[+] WarmSoda@lemm.ee -29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Reading these comments is hilarious.
If any of you took two minutes to go to Wikipedia and actually read about the games design you wouldn't need to make all of these assumptions.

Propaganda? Lmao It's a little indie video game made by a guy in his spare time. If this is twisting all your panties in such knots I'm really afraid for you if you ever learn about the real world.

[-] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 1 year ago

"Apoliticals" when people analyze a game and find political meanings behind it rather than mindlessly consuming it without any thought:

[+] WarmSoda@lemm.ee -10 points 1 year ago

Did you even read the wiki or you just wanted to reply with anger for no reason?

[-] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 1 year ago

You are telling people to go to a conservative misinformation site to read about how a game is not politically motivated to promote conservative anti-communist viewpoints. Do you see why that advice might be taken with a grain of salt?

[-] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 1 year ago

Well, thank you for demonstrating how intelligent you are by completely missing the point.

[-] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 1 year ago

Sounds like you're the one who's flabbergasted some people actually analyse the media they consume.

Nothing is made without intent, and that includes "subconscious" intent such as repeating propaganda you have internalised, whether you realise it or not.

If this is too difficult for you I'm afraid for you if you ever learn about the real world.

[-] lil_tank@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 1 year ago

Propaganda? Lmao It’s a little indie video game made by a guy in his spare time.

You heard it comrades? Just make little pieces media on your spare time and no one can ever accuse you of making communist propaganda! How convenient!

[-] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 1 year ago

Oh, I never knew if something was made by one person that it couldn’t be influenced by or contain propaganda. Very interesting that if only one person makes something they aren’t influenced by the propaganda that the society they live in is seeped in. Thanks for illuminating that for me.

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 1 year ago

As one person who also makes things on my own, it is a big relief to know that everything I will ever make will be completely apolitical. As a individual person is apparently incapable of bias. Or...maybe not? I'm not really working in my spare time, maybe that's the key to being non-political?

[-] ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 1 year ago

He crafted the fictional nation of Arstotzka, fashioned as a totalitarian, 1982 Eastern Bloc state, with the player guided to uphold the glory of this country by rigorously checking passports and defeating those that might infiltrate it.

What was it that you wanted to show us from Wikipedia? Actually forgot it. We don't need to know.

[-] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 1 year ago

Honestly it has gotten to the point where if anyone mentions "glory" or "gloriousness" in context to socialism, socialist leaders or socialist states, I write it off as anticommunist jibber jabber.

[+] Lemvi@lemmy.sdf.org -38 points 1 year ago

No, I don't think Arstotzka is modeled after any particular country.

However, under Stalin, workers were paid for their work based on a piece-rate system, meaning that if they didn't hit the quota, they were paid less.

This, coupled with famines caused by the mismanaged production and distribution of food, like the one in 1933, could certainly lead to a working man not being able to provide for his entire family.

[-] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 1 year ago

There's no need for reactionary propaganda here.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/169438

[+] Lemvi@lemmy.sdf.org -30 points 1 year ago

Ah, didn't realize this was lemmygrad 😅

Just out of curiosity though, which part of my comment do you consider to be propaganda?

Btw, by my understanding a "reactionary" is a person who seeks to restore an earlier political state of society. Wouldn't that make people who want to return to the "good old days" under Stalin the true reactionaries?

[-] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 40 points 1 year ago

The last paragraph referencing the Holodomor, which is a hoax, and as is refuted in the breakdown I linked. I haven't looked into the various wage systems the Soviet Union experimented with so I can't speak to that.

To be a reactionary is to seek to conserve the current structures of power, ie. to defend capital, and in so doing to oppose revolutionary and even non-radical progressive liberal movements. It is not reactionary at all to look back on revolutionary movements in a positive light.

https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Reactionary

[-] WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're obviously just agitating, but I'll bite.

A reactionary is defined by the OED as "a person who is opposed to political or social change".

The propaganda you posted was about the famine in 1933. Read the link you were given. It's an overused talking point with a grain of truth. It's propaganda because it specifically blames communism for a natural disaster. And people who typically bring it up completely gloss over what was happening in capitalist north America at the time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl

I might also argue that it's not so much "if you don't meet the quota, you're paid less", but more of "if you meet the quota, you're paid more". But that's a matter of personal bias. I work in a capitalist country, and both statements apply to me. I would be more charitable with the socialist state, and probably use your statement to describe my job, but that's my personal bias.

[-] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 1 year ago

A reactionary is defined by the OED as “a person who is opposed to political or social change”.

I would disagree with Oxford here, because fascists are reactionaries and do want political and social change which is not yet acceptable in liberal society.

Unless Oxford says that liberalism is just a step away from fascism and there's no sizeable differences between the two, in which case based comrade OED.

I much prefer ProleWiki's definition that reactionaries seek to conserve the current structures of power.

[-] WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

OED defines fascism as "an extreme right-wing political system or attitude that is in favour of strong central government, aggressively promoting your own country or race above others, and that does not allow any opposition"

It has this to say about liberalism: "having or relating to political and social beliefs that support individual freedom and rights, democracy and free enterprise (= businesses competing against each other with little government control)"

I do not feel that these are incompatible in any major way. Prolewiki does do a better job of pointing that out, but I still think the OED's definition works as well.

[-] NothingButBits@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 year ago

Lol, in capitalism if you don't meet your quota you just get fired.

[-] WhatWouldKarlDo@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

True. But I survived the last round of layoffs after profit expectations were missed (we still made hand over fist money).

[-] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No, I don’t think Arstotzka is modeled after any particular country.

Are you sure? On the 29th/30th day, the border wall gets destroyed; which really gives me serious "Fall of the Berlin Wall" vibes.

Also, Arstotzka has "East Grestin" as one of its region names, and another country (Kolechia?) has "West Grestin" as one of its region names. Would be really surprising if neither of these were based off the GDR and West Germany respectively; despite having these details.

[-] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Stalin died in 1953 and people in the west also used to be paid by the piece in the 40s and 50s 🤨 my grandma was one of them in the 60s, it still happens in some industries to this day.

Papers Please takes place in the 80s, it doesn't have anything to do with Stalin. Stalin is dead he can't hurt you it's okay.

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this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023

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