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submitted 2 years ago by fne8w2ah@lemmy.world to c/games@lemmy.world
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[-] hiddengoat@kbin.social 80 points 2 years ago

"We absolutely cannot have ten years of Cities Skylines 1 content done" for the launch of the sequel, Colossal Order CEO Mariina Hallikainen says in the latest issue of PC Gamer. As a result, the studio decided to focus on "those things that we feel should have been in the original Cities: Skylines, but we didn't have the time or manpower."

Anyone that's not a fucking idiot already knew this, because we understand how temporal reality works. But the whiny "everything sucks and is bad" Stephanie Sterling crowd won't care.

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 25 points 2 years ago

But it looks like they did incorporate DLC into the sequel; it just isn't obvious. The current implementation of extractive versus value added industry looks better than what they did with Industries. The quantity of different transit types also feels like an equivalent to a couple of DLC for the original game. I also feel like the sequel's approach to power would also be most of a DLC for the original.

It isn't perfect, but it looks like Collosal Order at least implemented a lot of lessons learned from the original game. It doesn't seem as empty as C:S at launch.

[-] chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz 26 points 2 years ago

I've played enough CS1 to know that I can't play it any more, no matter how much content it has. Its absolutely braindead traffic AI destroys my enjoyment of if the game once a city gets sufficiently big.

The traffic AI fixes were all I needed to see to be interested in CS2.

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[-] Wahots@pawb.social 41 points 2 years ago

As much as I like C:S, the thought of getting a relatively barebones game with $200 in DLC over the next 5-7 years to make the city feel complete makes me feel depressed.

That was the bummer in the original game. Only two ways to deal with trash, unless you bought $30 of DLC. I'll be waiting to see if the game is good or not, or if they totally gimped certain parts of the game like bridges, ports and transit to resell back as a la carte DLC.

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 13 points 2 years ago

I don't understand this attitude that the new game needs to include the DLC of the old one that's never been a thing in games. New versions of an old game never previously included the DLC for the old game apart from anything else because it wouldn't make sense because they've changed so many systems.

[-] eluvatar@programming.dev 7 points 2 years ago

I think the difference now is that DLC adds features, and so people are upset when the new game is missing features from the old DLC. Where in the past, say with Oblivion or Skyrim, it was just more story, maybe some new skills, in one case there was a new feature (house building) and their newer games do include that feature. But people don't expect the story line from the DLC in the new game.

Features in DLC feel different these days. In the past DLC had a more limited scope, and you looked forward to the new game for new features. But now if the new game comes out with less features it can be a bummer for people used to the old game. There isn't really a great solution because I don't think it always makes sense to add all the DLC features in the new game.

[-] Tb0n3@sh.itjust.works 38 points 2 years ago

And then you've got absolute mad men like Concerned Ape making stardew valley 10 times better with free updates for years and years. Showing these money hungry companies how it's done.

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 44 points 2 years ago

The scale is just a little bit different here, isn't it. One guy (maybe a few more) and an indie sensation that makes a ridiculous amount of sales vs. a company that needs to pay wages for 30 people.

We can have a discussion here, but comparing standard run rates vs. a massive exception isn't a great starting point.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

Yeah it’s also one guy who got so rich off it he never has to work again if he doesn’t want to. Haunted Chocolatier isn’t because concerned ape is a game dev now and needs money, it’s concerned ape wants to make a new game. He clearly loves stardew valley and that’s part of why he keeps updating it.

Terraria is a better exception to use but still an exception. I’m not asking for every game to give free unplanned massive expansions, though I will continue praising those who do such things and absolutely add them to my list of “buy their next game if I’m remotely interested”.

What I want is games that feel like they’re trying to give everyone a fair deal. A base game that’s good on its own and doesn’t feel like a downgrade from the previous game. A few expansions that are good, reasonably priced, and make the game further into its best version of that iteration of the series. And a reasonable number of non expansion dlc that add something and ideally don’t leave me trying to decide what ones I want to get. And by the end of life the game can be not quite the cheapest but full, good, and complete. That way when the next iteration of the series is dropped I’m not left thinking it was because they just wanted to sell me the same things over again. Civilization does this excellently.

[-] hiddengoat@kbin.social 23 points 2 years ago

Yes, companies with 30 employees are, in fact, money hungry because that's how the employees fucking eat. One person's recurring costs are nowhere near the recurring costs of dozens of people. WEIRD HOW MATH.

Stardew Valley, Undertale, Braid, all of these one-man (mostly) shows generated enough revenue to effectively retire their creators overnight but if they had to pay 30 motherfuckers with the proceeds... yeah, not so much.

[-] TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

I've worked for those (sized) companies and employee pay is not as much as you'd think. Not to mention higher sales don't equal more pay (for the actual workers.)

Source: just shy of 20 years in gaming.

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[-] ComradeWeebelo@lemm.ee 21 points 2 years ago

If the rumors regarding the performance for the sequel are true, they won't even have a working game on launch.

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[-] WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

This is the classic problem with all paradox games that I don't really have a solution for. Like as players we want them to support the game for a long time and keep updating it, but unless that's through dlcs then they can't really do that without getting paid somehow. The other alternatives are just not doing any updates and releasing a full new game every couple years which would probably have less features added compared to doing dlcs. Or having a subscription that you pay to get new updates which while I'm personally fine with I know a lot of people aren't. So that just leaves the current strategy of constantly doing dlcs and every once in a while releasing a new game and bringing over as many dlc features as they can to the new one while not making the development time unreasonable.

[-] TheActualDevil@sffa.community 14 points 2 years ago

There's one other option:

They could make games outside newer versions of the same game. Game studios used to (and many still do) make a game, put it out, then get started making a whole different game. Even with the modern ability to update games,

  1. Put game out

  2. Update game to deal with unforeseen bugs found once the masses have access

  3. Maybe put out 1 DLC if you want

  4. Make a new game now. A different game.

[-] bighi@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

To be honest, I’d prefer for them to keep expanding a game I like. That’s what kept me playing SC1 for the past 65 years (or however long it has been since the game has been released).

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[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 8 points 2 years ago

But they point the comment above is making is that the years of support add a bunch of features that wouldn't exist otherwise. Sure, they could just not. Why would they do that though if they have a team who knows how to work on a thing and people willing to pay for it.

For example, BG3 exists because the studio continued to make games in the same style in the same engine for a very long time. They became absolute experts in it, and continuously improved their tools and techniques. You don't get that by constantly making new different games.

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[-] pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

I haven't played Cities: Skylines in years, this looks great but hopefully they fixed the stupid traffic AI. I hated that when you built a wider road to decrease congestion half of the cars would ignore the opened lanes and still pile up in the original ones.

[-] iAmTheTot@kbin.social 23 points 2 years ago

That is one of the areas of the game they specifically worked on to improve. There's dev diaries about how they improved it.

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[-] Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Widening roads is never a good answer in game or real life, it induces new demand and will eventually become more congested. Need to build a train line instead

[-] chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz 14 points 2 years ago

I understand what you're getting at, but even cities with lots of public transit get choked with traffic in CS1. The traffic AI is abysmal.

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[-] Psythik@lemm.ee 12 points 2 years ago

Why not? The constant updates are what kept me playing for so many years!

[-] InterSynth@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 years ago

I think the developer meant they can't have a decade of C:S DLC included in vanilla C:S2.

[-] jpeps@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

100%, the comments have been infuriating to read. This is the obvious interpretation.

[-] Paradox@lemdro.id 10 points 2 years ago

From what I've seen the road building is far better and basically incorporates all the "retired" mods

I'm sad that zoning is still essentially the same as how SimCity did it in 1989, as I really want mixed use, but that's a minor quibble

[-] lud@lemm.ee 9 points 2 years ago

Cities skylines 2 has mixed used, or at least the mini trailers and dev diaries says so

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[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago

I'm planning to try and build an offset hex grid city

Basically there's one hex pattern for car traffic, and an offset hex pattern that's for pedestrians and cyclists, and where there's any intersections between the two, the car traffic gets raised to give pedestrian traffic an underpass.

Also every car intersection is a roundabout, and I'm considering doing alternating one way lanes with every pair being bracketed by transit only lanes.

[-] sirfancy@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

That sounds like an absolute nightmare to realistically navigate but I would love to see it.

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[-] Mango@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Lolz, send me a link when you've released your first video!

There's no way you can do all that meticulous work without also having the patience to make a video about it. 😉

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this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2023
219 points (93.6% liked)

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