The whole notion of CSDs is a blueprint example of what happens when UI designers try to think things through too hard. They come up with grand solutions to trivial problems that are so poorly thought through that they create even bigger problems.

Realistically, nobody is going rewrite their entire application just because of what a tiny cabal of Gnome developers think. Just read this post that was linked elsewhere in this thread. At the end, Tobias is basically arguing that people should go out there and harass the developers of all Linux desktop applications (including the entire KDE project!) to follow through on this ridiculous idea:

Thus, our goal is for as many apps as possible to have the following properites [sic]

• No title bar
• Native-looking close/maximize/minimize icons
• Respects the setting for showing/hiding minimize and maximize
• Respects the setting for buttons to be on the left/right side of the window

Which apps are affected? Basically, all applications not using GTK3 (and a few that do use GTK3). That includes GTK2, Qt, and Electron apps.

If that alone doesn't alert people of how out-of-touch the Gnome developers are, then I don't know what would.

Because hamburger menus do not belong on any screen larger than a tablet

Gnome was my first WM. Modern Gnome provides the best macOS-like experience on Linux. I stopped using Gnome years ago because hostility to ANY customization means EVERY Gnome update breaks SOMETHING I want until Gnome Tweaks or whatever works around it 6 months later. It's a really shitty altitude for a Linux WM to have, honestly. I use KDE now.

Because they're objectively better on a desktop.

Your compositor should control the window - if the poorly implemented client hangs, you can just click the server-side close button a couple times and get the "shall I force close this?" popup

The only reason for CSD is touch interfaces on small screens. In that case, you still need some other interface to handle misbehaving applications, but they tend to be harder to use, e.g. the removal of home/back buttons on Android

Edit: If you're trying to improve on SSD, you could consider some model where the client can register some actions it would like to have displayed to the compositor, and the compositor can relay clicks back to the client. In this scheme, the compositor still owns the title bar, but the client can request special decorations

I've avoided Gnome since the shift to GTK 3, when it became apparent that the devs were hiding functionality in the name of some greater vision that was never explained to lesser mortals.

You don't get to treat me as a moron, only my wife can do that.

XFCE and KDE have served me well, at least they don't hide settings and functionality from me.

To not be a PITA.

personally I love the way gnome apps use CSD, but then I only ever use gnome. I'm not a fan of the absolute statements people make here, either saying CSD is terrible or superior, I feel like their actual usage is a personal preference.

that said, I would prefer if the gnome project made much more of an effort to integrate its apps into the wider ecosystem. They could add an option that GTK listens to that turns the title bar into just a menu bar, allowing SSD desktops to provide their own decoration. and the gnome desktop could also provide default decorations for apps that don't have CSD. I think this would provide a better experience for both gnome users and users of other desktops

It's funny how many GNOME people whine about the title bar wasting so much space when GNOME apps literally look like as if they've been made for touchscreen users. Also, what about the great black bar on the top of the system?

We should honestly just leave GNOME behind and have them deal with it. We won't move forward much with their child-like stubbornness and toxic community.

I'm a bit out of the loop,... but every time I hear about the gnome project it sounds a bit authoritarian and close minded. Maybe it's because they're spread thin ? but it seems more like they have tunnel vision. They remind me of Apple

Typos in French version:

tandis que d’autres ne sont pas pensent que ça fait partie de l’application

GNOME mettrait évidement en place les protocoles pertinents et activerait les décorations côté serveur sur toutes les applications qui ne demandent pas explicitement le SSD.

-> CSD

Side note: after reading all this I still read Solid State Drive and wonder why Gnome want me to use Hard Disk Drive…

This is the main argument the GNOME developers use to justify why they don’t support SSD. This is true, xdg-decoration is an “unstable” protocol, and wayland was originally designed with only CSD in mind.

This is the main argument they use but this is not the main reason. The main reason is "design". SSDs are not a part of GNOME HIG or GNOME's vision. It's not that they just 'don't like it'. They actively want to kill it, at least in their own ecosystem.

The original 2018 "CSD initiative" blog post has TLDR on top saying, " Let’s get rid of title bars. Join the revolution!" so they consider this a "revolution".

Yes. While CSD are obviously better - because they enable the titlebar to contain useful things instead of being a gigantic waste of pixels - SSD also obviously need to be supported.