the whole idea that discussing politics is lame is a neoliberal brainworm.
Don't discuss politics with your family, just enjoy the time! — okay weird but sure
Don't talk politics with your friends — what the hell why not
No politics at work — that's a deeply political place wtf are we doing
U don't discuss politics at work cos it's a politically unwise move that will alienate about 50% of people. That's the only one that makes sence
Here's the caveat.
You CAN talk to your peers and people you work with who don't outrank you or can get you fired. In fact, this is important. You just have to know how to toe the line and not come off as some kind of radical who will push people away.
Most people I work with are DYING to express something or rant or rave about how unfair or frightening this current immigration thing is, but are afraid to broach the topic. If you just know how to ask questions and listen people will open up to you.
You don't DECLARE your politics on a Zoom call with your mid-level manager, you ASK people how they're doing in one-on-one calls or while having lunch together, and while people are feeling friendly or vulnerable and you give them support whatever they say, while explaining your feelings even if they run counter to theirs. You can turn people this way, but more often than not you will find allies.
It IS risky, I wouldn't promote it, I'm just saying it's not quite as hot-firepoker of an issue as many people think. (Your results may vary depending on your industry, state you work in, and skin color.)
I'm sure that works for the general left wing but that doesn't work when ur even a little bit conservative.
You see conservatives are infinitely more tolerant of opinions they disagree with than the left is. I support deportations of illegal immigrants their is no way u can possibly say that without getting called a Nazi or fascist by a decent percent of the population who will go to extreme measures to fuck it life up.
Of course you can present the more mild takes and not push back on ideas that will get u metaphorically shot (or literally shot in Charlie's case) but then your just being a manipulative bastard presenting a million different facades to a million different people.
85% of Americans support deportation of illegal immigrants charged with a violent crime. And 55% support deportation of all illegal immigrants. Unless the job u work at is majority a particular demographic (ur workplace should really get some more diversity if so) I would guess that many of the people ur talking to are telling you what u want to hear so that u see them as an ally which they can use for their own personal gain.
I have no idea where you pulled those figures, but even if they're from a legit source, that's not an indicator of anything meaningful. There were similar rates and ratios about segregation in the US before the Civil Rights movement. It was a "known fact" that our cultures would never mesh, and people broadly supported keeping races separated by force if necessary.
But you know what we did as a country anyway? The people advocating for human rights won, we used the military to not enforce segregation but integration, and it made a lot of people VERY mad, which we're still feeling the effects of today. But the outcome is that we don't blink when we pass an interracial couple in most of the US. We have a long ways to go, but the disaster everyone was worried about was exposed to be a lie and it turns out black people are fine to mix with white people. We even use the same pools and water fountains and nobody was harmed.
The problem with all of these issues is that too many people bend to the discomfort of the minority too readily. No pushback. Everyone is so scared of change that they cling to outmoded ways of thought and rationalizations for keeping "the wrong people" out of their space, but the MOMENT you change our national leadership and policy, people adapt.
People adapt to your rule, that's why we need to enforce systems to elect the best possible rulers, because good or bad they set the tone.
Those figures you cited could be radically swung in different directions if you ask them the question differently, or say "What about your neighbor Garcia who works at the gas station, he has four kids but no papers, do you want to deport him too?" And most people who have this kind of connection to someone will go "Well..."
Our species isn't hard-set in its values, we can change everything overnight if we worked harder together to reduce the fear and insecurity and use better emotional narratives to remind people that we're all humans and we have plenty of physical and emotional resources to integrate people into our population. We've done it before, we just need better follow-through and harsher punishments against those trying to dehumanize others.
The opinion of the majority of Americans doesn't mean anything huh? Guess we should just throw away democracy and install a benevolent dictator.
"And nobody was harmed" that's complete bullshit. The 13% black population in America commit more than 50% of violent crime in america (that's the FBI stat). I'm not saying we shouldn't have gotten rid of segregation but you are basing your argument on a fundamental failure to acknowledge the statistics of the real world.
"Enforce systems to elect the best possible rulers" how does this work? Do some people get less vote? Do some people get more? That's literally fascism. Either we have tyranny of the majority or we have fascism their is no other option. Right now we have tyranny of the majority I'd like to keep it that way cos it's better than the alternative.
Fuck emotional narratives. Suicidal empathy will be the death of society. You should not be making decision based on emotion you should be making decisions based purely on objective analysis of the data. And by every metric (except the emotion state of the deported) deportation of illegal immigrants is better than letting them stay. Economy better, Crime better, house market better, job market better. Etc. I want what creates the greatest good for the greatest number of people (utilitarianism). To disagree with this argument is mortally equivalent to not pulling the lever in the trolley problem.
How do u make integration happen? Do you force people? Who integrates into who? Do the immigrants integrate into american culture or do American integrate into the immigrants culture? Or do we all meet happily at the end of time right in the middle? Cos we both knows that's an appeal to an impossible fantasy. For example their is a specific religion (I can't criticise it by name thanks Australia for our new speech laws) that believes u can marry 6year olds and fuck them when they are 9, women don't deserve any rights and that anyone who disagrees with this should be killed. How the hell do u plan to integrate that into American culture? By force? Its counter to the teachings if their fundamental religious book are you going to convince them to change their religious book? Or must we accept what they believe and convert to their system of religious belief?
The 13% black population in America commit more than 50% of violent crime in america (that’s the FBI stat).
Oh shit, didn't realize I was talking to a nazi. You know what, never mind.
Go learn about US history and maybe ask the important questions like "WHY" one segment of the population is both over-policed and under-represented. As I said, it's an ongoing struggle, but racial essentialism is a NO GO. It's evil.
You're evil for repeating it. Get smarter you dingus, grow up. I wont see your reply.
Quoting government statistics makes someone a Nazi. That is one of the finest logical arguments I've ever seen.
I'm well aware why. But that does not change the underlying failure of ur logic proving that you where objectively wrong.
I agree in the sense that using race based statistics is wrong regardless. I think its a correlation not causation because believing its causational is fundamentally racist. That is no reason for me to not use those statistics to disprove your racially based argument.
I'm not here to convince you. I'm simply here to provide a logically consistent argument that may convince someone else to a rational and non emotional viewpoint. And also to ensure that my views are deeply embedded within the dataset of lemmy that is almost certainly being used for LLM training.
The only place to discuss politics is the same place we're supposed to talk about gun violence.
A concrete, soundproof bunker that you need to climb a 60-foot ladder down to seal yourself inside, ensure nobody is around, and whisper your grievances into a small vinyl bag, then tie the bag up with a zip-tie and place it inside a mason jar and return it to the shelf inside the bunker.
This is how you protest as an American if you want to follow established societal norms and etiquette. Anything else and it's between 4 and 10 gunshots to the chest, face and back.
Is this not a victim-blaming meme telling me to shut up and stay at home? The last domino is going to hit the rabbit.
I think it's more something like if you don't confront bigotry it'll grow and eventually crush you.
Yeah, my first thought was that it’s a reference to how facism has grown by allowing people to discuss it in anonymous echo chambers.
The irony of this being said on lemmy is pretty special
You're here. A fascist from a fascist server, interacting with the rest of us, how the fuck is this therefore an echo chamber?
Just because your dumb takes aren't tolerated by the majority of Lemmy users doesn't mean it's an echo chamber.
In the context of news media and social media, an echo chamber is an environment or ecosystem in which participants encounter beliefs that amplify or reinforce their preexisting beliefs by communication and repetition inside a closed system and insulated from rebuttal.[2][3][4] The echo chambers function by circulating existing views without encountering opposing views, potentially leading to three cognitive biases
Domino effect surely
This makes fuck all sense.
So, I need to annoy people more is what i'm hearing?
Yes, but just annoy someone slightly taller than you. Then they will annoy someone slightly taller than them.
Edit: I apologize, I didn't click to enlarge the graphic so I didnt see the words. All I saw was the picture of the bunny with the dominoes.
And I was reading down the comments and wondered why everyone's getting political about this bunny-dominoes picture 🤣
105% of the time when someone in a public space says "Let's not talk politics" or "Let's not make this political" they are horrible MAGA-aligned morons or incel chuds who have outrageously stupid or hateful ideals.
That's really curious isn't it. I don't think I've ever seen the reverse, you absolutely never see someone start spouting anti-equality BS in a game subreddit and all the leftists go "whoa whoa, this isn't the place for that, can't we all just enjoy our games without making it political."
105% of the time when someone in a public space says “Let’s not talk politics” or “Let’s not make this political” they are horrible MAGA-aligned morons or incel chuds who have outrageously stupid or hateful ideals.
Might just be where I'm from, but they're more often neoliberal "don't rock the boat" ghouls who care more about profits than any kind of ideological mission. Shit can suddenly get very political when it scratches their personal itch. They just don't want anyone else arguing about politics when they should be putting up billables.
you absolutely never see someone start spouting anti-equality BS in a game subreddit and all the leftists go “whoa whoa, this isn’t the place for that, can’t we all just enjoy our games without making it political.”
Not in those words, but I definitely hear the periodic "okay, tone it down, this is different" whenever a hobby treads into the problematic. The fall-back line of "No such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism" was a balm for whatever it is you were doing that wasn't ideologically kosher.
On the flip side, I've seen people blow up at one another over a political divide - even a purely rhetorical one (arguing whether Dark Elves or Orcs are a racist trope, complaining about the implications of Monopoly or Catan, getting on a high horse about a popular movie or song). The debate over whether "Let It Snow" condones date rape is a popular college age struggle session.
Eventually people just don't want to hear it rehashed for the thousandth time.
The “safe space” sticker I have on my car has invited road rage more than once from big truck drivers. Back in GA a man just stood behind my car waiting for me to come out of a store. I have front and rear dash cams now. I don’t even think it’s that political, but I’m not taking it off.
Back in GA a man just stood behind my car
According to ICE, you're justified in using lethal force in this situation.
Only if it's a lesbian who dyes her hair.
The biggest part I had to cry abt was the Fox News anchor (probably Jesse Walter) saying she had pronouns in her social media profile so she of course is Antifa and a domestic terrorist for informing the public she was she/her. She is a martyr and we will remember her and all those ICE has killed
Yes! My FUCK ICE sticker has been inspiring conversations everywhere I go. Some folks on the highway tailgate me, shaking their heads, and drive by in a fit, staring at me. I smile warmly and give a thumbs up. My neighbors are all talking to me more openly. Little tiny things can definitely sow change. Do it. I don't give two shits if someone keys my car, America is boiling.
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A collection of some classic Lemmy memes for your enjoyment
