Clippers offer for Harden doesn't look so bad now does it Morey?
What do you mean? On top of the solid+ player talent, the Knicks are offering 2-3 #1 picks for Joel.
IIRC the Clips only offered Morey mediocre salary matching, and a single #1 for Harden.
By most accounts, Clips are offering Marcus Morris & Norm Powell + a pick or two for a player on a one year contract. The idea is to get Harden somewhere else so that the team can focus on keeping talent around Embid and compete so that he remains happy as well.
Those players are being offered for the reigning MVP. The guy that Morey is most definitely trying to keep around.
The difference in talent between Norman Powell and this version of James Harden is much closer than any of those guys from the Knicks and Embid. Plus, that trade would basically be a blow-it-up trade. The exact thing that Morey is trying to avoid.
I agree with just about all of that, but let's not forget that the Clips have been knocking on the door for four years now, and have been unfortunately bedeviled by injury, every single season.
Harden obviously isn't at Joel's level (altho TBF about the "reigning MVP," he's not at Jokic' level either), but he's still a difference-maker who can be the #1 focal point at times, especially useful as someone on a team with contending-level talent that needs to rest or injury-recover for stretches.
So my point is that the Clips throwing in a little bit more, Terance or another #1 pick maybe, is a perfectky reasonable counter and price to pay IMO. Meanwhile, other teams like the Suns & Bucks are going scorched earth with their draft picks to win, now. By comparison, the Clips only need to go a *little bit* further to grab Harden, altho TBH from a negotiation standpoint I kind of admire both they and Morey.
There are probably plenty of good reasons to critique Morey's track record, but I don't think this is one of them... yet.
Absolutely. I was just being snarky about Morey. It’s this fine line where the Clips are already an older team and even though Mann is fake young (he just turned 27), trading one of their only under-30 rotation players to get older is probably counter-productive for them.
Personally, I think trading an additional draft pick that is going to be for some current middle-schooler is probably worth it to get Harden and keep Mann specifically because they are going to need his defense. Not that he’s a GREAT defender or anything, but Mann is probably the best option at power forward on the Clippers as currently constructed. That’s a dude playing out of position who’s going to be the starting PF for them.
Clips looked old last year. Can’t keep trading away guys in their 20s for guys in their 30s. It’s not sustainable.
But basically, neither side has much additional leverage to use unless Harden changes his stance one way or the other. Clips probably already feel like they’ve been raked over the coals by Presti’s package for PG13, and they’ll be damned if they’re going to empty the draft cabinet again for a 1-year rental who has basically incentivized every other team in the league to stay far away from him.
Harden has probably done more harm to getting this deal done than anyone. Though I do still think Morris (Philly born) & Norm (streaky, but definitely a bucket when he’s on), while not James Harden talent, are viable pieces to keep the 6ers in contention.
Morris was over exposed because Ty Lue played him an ungodly number of minutes. You have him as like 9 or 10 off the bench, he could probably get you some good outside shooting and he could be a sort of goon/hard fouling enforcer. If he’s playing more than 10-12 minutes though, that’s bad.
Norm can score. He’s rough on defense, but Harden’s defensive capabilities are up and down at best. I would imagine they will be way down if he’s going the sabotage route. Norm also gets a bit of tunnel vision and isn’t a great passer like Harden. Still, a microwave bench scorer is nothing to sneeze at. Plus you hand the reins over to Maxey with the starters.
That seems a much better prospective 23-24 season than a sulking Harden. I am a bit biased though.
As a Clippers fan, I’m skeptical that Harden will be the solution, and if they give up Mann in the deal, I’m pessimistic the fit would work out at all.
Ah, you're over my head with most of that, but good luck on the season to y'all.
I'm a Nets fan btw, and super-happy about getting the big three out the door with a pretty nice return indeed.
Harden can suck it.
At least the Knicks have figured out that they should try to offer a trade instead of just waiving players and hoping that a super star free agent would want to join a team with no supporting cast because it is in New York. Even if a player did, would you want a player who is more interested in the New York night club scene than he is in winning?
That would shake the east. I don't see yet NY as a contender with Embiid the first year, but they could sign someone valid to help then (no, no Harden...)
| East - Atlantic |
|---|
| Boston Celtics |
| Brooklyn Nets |
| New York Knicks |
| Philadelphia Sixers |
| Toronto Raptors |
| East - Central |
|---|
| Chicago Bulls |
| Cleveland Cavaliers |
| Detroit Pistons |
| Indiana Pacers |
| Milwaukee Bucks |
| East - Southeast |
|---|
| Atlanta Hawks |
| Charlotte Hornets |
| Miami Heat |
| Orlando Magic |
| Washington Wizards |
| West - Northwest |
|---|
| Denver Nuggets |
| Minnesota Timberwolves |
| Oklahoma City Thunder |
| Portland Trailblazers |
| Utah Jazz |
| West - Pacific |
|---|
| Golden State Warriors |
| Los Angeles Clippers |
| Los Angeles Lakers |
| Phoenix Suns |
| Sacramento Kings |
| West - Southwest |
|---|
| Dallas Mavericks |
| Houston Rockets |
| Memphis Grizzlies |
| New Orleans Pelicans |
| San Antonio Spurs |