For me RTFM just means “show us you tried something yourself before reaching out for help”. In other words that you tried putting some work in and not just trying to get someone else to do your work or thinking for you.
I’m very happy to help someone willing to learn, but detest helping someone too lazy to do anything themselves.
That's a fair point.
Long time linux user: The worse problem is they don't even tell WHICH manual is relevant to the issue.
"How do I make my secondary drive auto-decrypt?" "RTFM"
Could have at least said "man crypttab 5" so that I don't have to waste 3 hours just trying to find the starting point.
"They". That's one sort of people who does RTFM the wrong way in my opinion. If I do RTFM, even for obvious simple ones, I most likely point to where to look at, ideally with a link. I do not RTFM literally, but saying there is some documentation and pointing to it usually. To me just saying RTFM (literally with this acronym) is rude, especially if someone already struggles and asks basic questions. Not everyone is "they".
RTFM is mostly a flex that people who got help before you are now referring to because they are already on the boat.
That said, a rudimentary Web search or maybe a llm question, might be in order before asking. You also learn more when you get those little successes by yourself.
While I agree that a little search is good for everyone, if no one asks questions publicly then no one has anything to find. I don't trust llm accuracy so I don't recommend that.
While not a reliable source on its own, it can usually point you in the right direction.
As a rule I don't tell people to RTFM, because it has some rude dismissive connotations, although I will share when it helps me solve a problem I've been butting up against that would've been solved if I had just read the docs.
That being said, I do encourage people to read the docs, as others' walkthroughs can be misinformational, and are usually tied to specific setups or software and hardware versions. It requires learning how to wade through a lot of information to find the info you need, but the info is usually guaranteed to be the most current and reliable.
That all being said, I'm more than happy to help when people want it.
There's a manual?
😆
additionally, and i'm sorry to say this, the fm often sucks. me being an enterprise architect by (one of my) trade(s), would usually benefit from an architecture or a systems sequence diagram... well this is rarely there :D and i'm saying this being a guy who originally learned to linux by methodically reading through, processing, and trial-and-erroring the complete set of man pages of my first distro, back in 97 or whatever.
Not to mention, RTfM is not always possible for some distros like NixOS where the documentation is weaker than for other more mainstream distros.
then you might be in over your head and shouldnt use what you are not able to use
That’s a round about way of saying RTFM, but even less welcoming. Probably not the kind of thing anyone should be told…
i see it more like telling somebody to weightlift 50kg first instead of immediately going for 500kg
With NixOS source code is the manual!
What are you talking about?, NixOS documentation is one of the best ones around, not to mention that with just being pointed to the approximate direction of something and having a good text editor you can figure out things quite easily and without risk of breaking your system. I've recently switched from Arch and honestly as good as documentation is on Arch, I prefer NixOS one.
I am talking from experience here. Some of the documentation is out of date, some is meant for Channel NixOS installs and not so appropriate for Flake-based installs.
Most of the fixes for my issues I find across NixOS discourse forum posts, or in the subreddit of the other platform. The Wiki/official documentation is not enough.
I’m glad you switched to NixOS (welcome!) but this is gap in documentation is something that will become more apparent over time. The NixOS official wiki ironically often links to Arch wiki to explain certain concepts further.
What am I missing? There should be no difference from "normal" to flake installs on anything NixOS related, only in syntax of the language itself since you're wrapping things. I've gone flakes and now somewhat dendritic and haven't had to check NixOS docs for anything (only nix language docs and other people's configs to see how they solved certain language specific peculiarities)
Uh… is the NixOS documentation “one of the best around” or have you never checked it? It really can’t be both.
Understand, I’m not trying to criticize NixOS. I use NixOS exclusively and it’s my daily driver. But the documentation really isn’t all there, and it’s not centralized. The best solutions you find across forums, blog posts, random wikis, and by checking other people’s configs like you said.
But yes, the fact you can test things without fear of breaking your system allows you to make hundreds of mistakes stress-free. That’s one of the best features about NixOS.
I've checked the NixOS documentation extensively for setting things up, my point was that I hadn't had to do so for migrating to flakes, as that's not a NixOS thing, but rather a Nix language thing.
Sure if it's in the Wiki the documentation is not too bad. But just looking for the documention of the lib functions via DuckDuckGo is somehow really hard. And if it's not in the Wiki or you want the home-manager module, I'll basically default to first looking at the options on 3rd party websites and then reading the source code for them. (Also the NixOS wiki is obviously not as comprehensive / big as the Arch Wiki)
Are you not aware of https://search.nixos.org/options or https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/options.xhtml ? You can search all available options, sometimes with links to the docs for the thing they set for extra context. Those are both official docs and are derived from the code that you're already looking at.
The first one is fine but it always seems like it shows a huge amount of packages, just not the one I'm looking for, also I don't find nixos options on there. For that like using mynixos. I really like being able to click on a parent options and see all of it's children (They also show some home-manager stuff). And the options page for home-manager is a horrible user experience. For that I usually use extranix.com. Thanks though.
Tealdeer.
Tl;dr.
NOBODY LEARNS BEST BY RTFM BUT WE DO IT ANYWAY SUCK IT UP
RTFM long predates videos in the internet; at this point I'd actually call it inclusive of videos and guides.
I actually get pretty pissed off when the only guide for a feature beyond a couple lines of "here's what this can do" with no elaboration is just a video. I don't want a video. I want a damn manual with working examples.
But if its all there is, I'll watch it before asking questions. The same should go for people who prefer videos, they should at least try the manual first, or looking at some guides or videos.
What's frustrating for people (generically speaking) is when zero attempt is made in advance of posting questions, and from what I see, is the majority of "RTFM" responses.
Oh I hate how everything is a video. Sometimes I just want text so I can ship to relevant section.
It drives me nuts.
At least provide a transcript somewhere. Thats all I ask.
I suggest to replace RTFM by WHYTSF : What Have You Tried So Far.
The goal isn't to blame or guilt trip anyone, rather it's to genuinely help and for that others need to know... WHYTSF?!
I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas.
sadly dwarfed by YouTube videos that are outdated as soon as they are produced, and web guides nobody maintains. worse, AI scrapers only know this outdated information and happily hallucinate based on it it is EXHAUSTING having users cheer and celebrate the placebo of all the made up bullshit that does nothing in their config or worse breaks everything in unpredictable ways
The idea of RTFM is that if you have questions, then we are all on same page with basic information found in the manual. I mean you expect others explain what is already said in the manual. Its like asking how to use your microwave oven, even if you have the manual right at your hand. Now, if the manual is unclear or difficult to understand, that is a different story. Then you can at least say you didn't understand it. The point is, that you did something before (your homework) and looked at the obvious places like the manual (and maybe further websearch).
People don't like others being lazy and asking the questions that doesn't need to be asked. That's why RTFM exist. As much as you might take the "RTFM" as an offending answer, those people think of you question as offending too. Now there are people who use this term loosely in places when it is not appropriate. Also it depends on the audience. If your grandma tries to use a browser to watch funny cat videos, and asks how to use it, then it would be inappropriate to say RTFM. But if you have a Linux user who asks about how to use grep, then I think it is an appropriate reply.
do you mean man pages? man pages are awesome. man is like the biggest deal command in unix.
Ι must say that Arch Linux's wiki pages are easily understood. But man pages are not. I can't follow the standard manual format. Just like with IKEA instructions, they just don't make sense to me. My brain is like that. But Arch Linux pages are good.
RTFM doesn't have to literally mean to read text, just like saying "let me google that for you" doesn't have to literally be google. Both statements are similar; the point is instead of burdening others with teaching you something, go learn it on your own whether that be the manual or random Indian tech youtuber.
RTFMP - I’d read the man pages if I could decipher them. 😁
Mostly /s
I can relate : I'm a noob. I often don't understand the manual, so I look for forum posts that are clearer/ easier to follow/more directly related to my problem and most of the time I find some.
I can't count the number of times I swear I read every man page and I can't figure out how to structure my arguments--especially when they are nested or conditional.
I especially wish more man pages had common examples. Sometimes an example can say more than a paragraph of explanation.
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