51
Not ideal Mr Xi (hexbear.net)
submitted 1 week ago by RNAi@hexbear.net to c/urbanism@hexbear.net
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[-] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 57 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

it looks like a diversified agricultural community with enough adjacent, distributed housing and shops to cover labor needs in a walkable/bikeable fashion.

very distinct from the moonscapes of monocropped midwest with a single residence, a thousand acres of soybeans, a trailer park hidden behind a grain silo, and nothing to fucking eat except jerky, chips, beer and soda.

[-] beanenjoyer@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago

Is chinese agriculture not industrialized? Because if it is there's no way that many people work so little land. It's rather a rural themed suburb it seems.

[-] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 43 points 1 week ago

industrialized doesn't mean massive plantations. that's more of a feature of settler projects like AUS, CAN, US, Brazil, etc.

the average farm size in china is less than an acre. compared with the US which is ~500 acres. despite them being small, and having less arable land than the US, you could pick just about any vegetable and china produces more than the next 8-10 countries combined. smaller farms with more workers have always produced more food per acre. the prevailing "wisdom" to the contrary ("giant megafarms are more efficient") is only true in the narrow sense of profitability due to being run by skeleton crews of workers with no decision making power and receiving the tiniest sliver of the value they produce.

as a westerner that has farmed in the US for decades and has been lucky enough to farm in asia, the contrast is mind blowing. and they have been farming the same land, in communities, for up to 4000 years.

the settler states and their export plantations are exhausting and destroying their abundant lands in just a few centuries, and the communities around them are already hollowed out and abandoned. food systems that support their communities tend toward looking a lot like subsistence systems, because some land is held back from export commodities for local consumption. even in hypercapitalist, industrialized and capital-intensive Japan, the average farm size is like 2 acres. and in a valley with dozens of commodity/monocrop export farms, every 8 or 9 plots will have a plot just for dense, diversified mixed vegetables for the workers of those other export plots.

most westerners can't even conceptualize what non-settler farming communities look like, because theyve only ever seen their own, very reckless and relatively young land use systems.

[-] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 26 points 1 week ago

the settler states and their export plantations are exhausting and destroying their abundant lands in just a few centuries, and the communities around them are already hollowed out and abandoned.

Reminder that the US's "victory gardens" became a necessity largely due to the mismanagement of the land Big Ag stole from Japanese farmers after pushing for their internment.

Japanese-American farmers were a huge presence on the pre-war West Coast, producing more than 40 percent of California's commercial vegetable crop alone. A June 1942 federal report noted that "the Japanese people were the most important racial minority group engaged in agriculture in the Pacific Coast region. Their systems of farming, types of crops and land tenure conditions were such that their replacement by other farmers would be extremely difficult . . . . The average value per acre of all West Coast farms in 1940 was $37.94, whereas that of Japanese farms was $279.96 . . . . Three out of every four acres of Japanese farm lands were devoted to actual crop production, whereas only one out of every four acres of all farm land in the areas was planted in crops."

https://web.archive.org/web/20180124152943/https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1992/02/02/bitter-harvest/c8389b23-884d-43bd-ad34-bf7b11077135/

[-] EstraDoll@hexbear.net 9 points 1 week ago

Three out of every four acres of Japanese farm lands were devoted to actual crop production, whereas only one out of every four acres of all farm land in the areas was planted in crops."

I might just be stupid but I've read this sentence like 5 times and it still doesn't make any sense to me. So 75% of the land was used to grow crops and 25% of the land was also used to grow crops? monke-beepboop

[-] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 10 points 1 week ago

i think it's saying that japanese farms devoted 75% of their land base to crop production, but the overall average for the community farm land (including anglos) was only 25%. like anglos were wasting tons of space to conform to some typically dumb, capital intensive production system that ignores everything "marginal". that's my assumption and it totally doesn't surprise me, but is very instructive.

more people can produce more food on less acres than the capital/energy intensive, highly mechanized systems. its like the most embarrassing and under appreciated statistic in settler ag systems. the unspoken part being that systems using a lot of human labor are unstable if not equitable. because theres all these able bodied people standing around with hand tools that might realize the "owner" or "overseer" provide no value. so settler ag systems rely extensively on slaves, penal systems, some defacto underclass of "guest"/seasonal workers on whatever process they can't automate away all labor.

[-] AstroStelar@hexbear.net 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Looking at a map of the area in China (see my other comment here), the plots are indeed smaller than those in Dutch polders. Market towns are approx. 10km apart, walking to the nearest one is about 90 minutes at most.

Furthermore, these lands were reclaimed in the 19th and 20th centuries, when agriculture was very un-mechanised, so staying close to the farm and going to the town once in a while, instead of clustering in towns and trekking to your plot every day was probably more efficient.

[-] chgxvjh@hexbear.net 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I also know a lot of people who dream (and some who've realized that dream) of this kind of life where they make at least some of their subsistance from farming and I imagine that's true in China too.

Could use some trains though

[-] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

lol, agreed on both points. i have been doing career and personal gymnastics for decades to contort my material situation and geographic location to realize some amount of personal subsistence ag activity with safe land tenure. it would be completely unrealistic for anyone to replicate my path. it will never generate more than it will have cost me, cumulatively, but its like a calling and a will to material/ecological reilience.

us political economy is completely at odds with allowing workers access to the resources necessary for even partial subsistence. i believe European elites and colonial administrators learned long ago that subsistence agriculture, besides being "wasted"/unrealized value for the ruling class, is also a potent means of labor resistance. in settler projects, it was the carrot to attract settlers and the brass ring of southern emancipation. but the frontier is now closed, more or less, so the economic screws are tightened to drive all but the most exploitative off the land best suited for plantation agriculture or fortress conservation & country resorts.

there are still weirdos out there being weird in the little fragments, coloring outside the lines. and we definitely could use more passenger trains out here lol. in case i want to take a trip into town and see like a fancy show or a fancier doctor with a store-bought haircut.

[-] chgxvjh@hexbear.net 4 points 1 week ago

Farm to Taber made good video recently how farm subsidies mainly present stable returns for land owners and inflate land value making it impossible for agricultural workers to become farmers.

The homesteads I've visited in Europe were sometimes 3 train rides + a bus ride + a 8 km hike away but that's still a qualitative difference to own a car or be fucked. And some have buses or trains almost straight to door too.

[-] Krem@hexbear.net 13 points 1 week ago

a cool thing in china is even when you live in a decent sized city, you often know someone who knows someone who's growing something (I mean fruit and veg, not dama) and people give each other produce all the time, so you often have a bag of local something from someone's farm

[-] StillNoLeftLeft@hexbear.net 9 points 1 week ago

This used to be life where I am before the 90s. Everyone had one or more friends or relatives still farming and you were pretty much set on produce through that. In my family we got everything from milk to strawberries basically free from relatives.

My grandparents had a cellar full of taters, onions, root veggies, jams and juice that fed a family of six for the winter. Most people also had a huge freezer for all the perishable stuff you'd get as well. Everyone made preserves. This was a time when all the urban soviet block type housing units still had a cooled cellar level where every apartment had their own cold storage to put the produce in. The housing still exists, but most have repurposed the cold cellars. It makes me so sad as we do allotment gardening and I'd like to grow my own taters, but there's no way to store them in an apartment anymore.

The eroding of things like this has definitely made the working class more exploitable and precarious.

[-] Dessa@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago

Great post, and you're right: I can't conceptualize it. I would like to be able to though

[-] AF_R@hexbear.net 4 points 1 week ago

Based response thank you

[-] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 week ago

Is chinese agriculture not industrialized?

The core/majority of it is yes

It’s rather a rural themed suburb it seems.

I don't know exactly where this is but I would assume it's a rural hukou homestead setup

[-] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

[edit: replied to wrong comment]

where the trees at? must be hot as fuck in summer there with no shade literally anywhere

[-] Egonallanon@feddit.uk 18 points 1 week ago

What is this uncomfortably vast array of neatly arranged small holdings I'm looking at?

[-] RNAi@hexbear.net 18 points 1 week ago

Rural area somewhere in China, near the sea or a big lake (you can spot the off shore wind turbines in the horizon)

[-] AstroStelar@hexbear.net 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

In that case it's probably the reclaimed land in eastern Jiangsu

In the Netherlands where I live you can often find "ribbon villages" in the polders, but not to such an extreme extent.

[-] Lurkmore@hexbear.net 18 points 1 week ago

This is fascinating. Thank you for the answer.

[-] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago

Suburbs x Farm crossover event?

this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2026
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