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[-] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 120 points 1 year ago

Oh fuck off on this one, Joe.

What exactly did you think would happen when you went on tv and announced that we would completely back Israel no matter what they did?

You expected restraint from an apartheid government in a blood rage?

Don't play dumb.

[-] Evilcoleslaw@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago

US military advisors also have been directly helping the IDF plan the invasion into Gaza. He's definitely trying to play dumb, probably because there's actual backlash to this stuff that's reaching the mainstream. Like, when you get Wolf Blitzer of all people stunned speechless on live TV at the IDF justification for striking a refugee camp, you know it's out of hand over there.

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[-] Alterforlett@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

So god damned stupid/malicious. Both him and the majority of Europe it seems said something to the like off: Israel are allowed to defend themselves. Defend themselves on Palestinian land. With weapons sold by us. And now we "encourage" restraint, like Israel has ever done that when it comes to civilians. They are more than happy to bomb the women and children being used as shields by Hamad.

[-] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

I'm not surprised by the US response. They did basically the exact same thing with Iraq/Afghanistan after 9/11.

[-] wetnoodle@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 year ago

Old sack of shit really convinced himself he could play this of without losing voters. Bro I've been routinely disappointed by your half measures and absolute failures to do what you were voted there to do, fuck. off.

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[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What did Biden think was gonna happen? They pass around cans of Pepsi and world peace is gonna break out?

Might’ve worked if we sold them a shit load of 24packs…. Instead of bombs and bullets

[-] PugJesus@kbin.social 46 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think they were expecting a much more restrained military response, rather than "1 out of every 200 Palestinians in Gaza is now dead, and the number is rising with no end in sight"

For comparison, from 2003-2005 in Iraq, around 30,000 civilians died, which was closer to 1 out of every 2000 Iraqis, and it was (rightly) considered a major fucking problem, both morally and strategically/politically.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Turns out when you sell a bunch of zealots bombs and tell them they have our unconditional support…

…. They think you’re down for the genocide…

[-] thefartographer@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

.... They think you're down for the genocode...

We weren't? But their skin is terrorist shade...

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

no no no. We're Liberators. We don't do genocide. we uh. liberate. and, uhm, stuff.

[-] DieguiTux8623@feddit.it 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Before sending weapons, money or unconditional support (as other political leaders said) one should be sure conventions about human rights and international law in general is going to be respected. Or do they trust each other taking only the word like friends in a pub? We, westerners, are responsible for those deaths and should carry them on our conscience.

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[-] arymandias@feddit.de 74 points 1 year ago

I think Biden is not looking forward to the upcoming headlines that the Gaza invasion has surpassed the entire Ukraine invasion in civilian death toll (in just one month). Kinda makes it hard to keep the spiel going that Israel are the good guys.

[-] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

More importantly, it makes it increasingly hard to justify US interventionist policies in Ukraine. Biden has simultaneously strengthened relations between Russia and the Middle East while weakening the position of NATO in Ukraine to some degree.

All the signs were there that this was the WRONG FUCKING DECISION. After pulling out of Afghanistan and settling one 20 year long Middle Eastern quagmire, I cannot for the life of me understand why he voluntarily entered the US into another one even if it was through one degree of separation. This is one of the all-time stupidest political blunders, and I firmly believe it could cost Biden the election next year.

Beyond that, the US is knowingly enabling Israel's bloodlust after Netanyahu and Likud spent the last twenty years frothing at the mouth, waiting for the opportunity to commit genocide while unifying Israel and wiping out what remained of the Palestinian people. It is completely fucking repugnant, and it truly seems like we are witnessing a tearing of the social fabric of society on all sides. I fear for what the next twenty years are going to look like more and more everyday.

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 40 points 1 year ago

Supporting Ukraine is the right move geopolitically and morally. We are preventing genocide there. Unfortunately we're in the opposite position in Israel.

This isn't a one-size-fits-all scenario. Some conflicts are just and some are not. We are supposed to elect folks with the judgment to determine which is which. Unfortunately Biden made a bad call here and the other side of the aisle is even more rabidly anti-Muslim and certainly wouldn't handle this any better, so the Palestinian people will have to spend the blood of children until the toll is too great to ignore and only then will we put pressure to Israel to find a non-genocidal way to move forward.

[-] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Supporting Ukraine is the right move geopolitically and morally.

I agree. I'm not sure why you thought that perhaps I didn't.

We are preventing genocide there. Unfortunately we're in the opposite position in Israel.

Yes, and that is exactly why it becomes difficult to sell the idea of interventionist policy. When the people of the world see the United States as no longer being capable of differentiating between a just and unjust conflict then all that is left is the belief that every decision that is made is being done to drive the military industrial complex and the capitalist lust for infinite growth at any cost. When that happens you are implicitly losing the moral justification that may exist because people no longer believe they can trust your motives. There are consequences to bad judgement.

This isn't a one-size-fits-all scenario.

I never said or implied that it was.

Some conflicts are just and some are not. We are supposed to elect folks with the judgment to determine which is which.Unfortunately Biden made a bad call here and the other side of the aisle is even more rabidly anti-Muslim and certainly wouldn't handle this any better, so the Palestinian people will have to spend the blood of children until the toll is too great to ignore and only then will we put pressure to Israel to find a non-genocidal way to move forward.

My argument is that the historical track record of the United States in determining this has irrevocably damaged the public trust to the degree that many rational people are becoming apathetic to the political process because no matter what they do it only results in violence against innocent people. You can disagree with this if you wish, but I have seen so much of this sentiment lately that I am really not sure if Biden can win based on how bad his judgement has been in dealing with this conflict. At some point it doesn't matter if you are better than the alternative if the average person no longer cares enough to make a distinction.

[-] Machinist3359@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago

They're totally out of touch, and expected a 9/11 like bloodlust. But 22 years is a long time, and the internet is able to disrupt the manufacturing of consent for genocide.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Not to mention I have a hard time finding anything about the response to 9/11 that I think was a good idea. Locking airplane cockpits as standard practice is one. Invading Afghanistan and Iraq aren't.

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[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 67 points 1 year ago

Sends bombs

Bombs kill people

Why does this keep happening?

[-] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 43 points 1 year ago

Notice that sending bombs doesn't necessarily end up with thousands of civilians dead. Ukraine has been getting plenty of bombs and the number of civilian casualties in Russia and Russian occupied territory is negligible. Even Russia's civilian infrastructure bombing campaigns took 2 years to kill as many civilians as Israel killed in the last 2 weeks and were already barbaric by all standards.

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[-] SGG@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Idk, just keep sending bombs I guess?

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

Inb4 bombs don't kill people, people kill people

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[-] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"We only gave them millions of dollars, weapons, and made sure that no other countries got involved, we never thought they'd take the opportunity to commit the genocide they've been talking about for ~~3,000~~ 70 years"

[-] bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 year ago
  • We also cast doubt on the death counts, even though they were verified by third parties and found to be accurate for every prior conflict

  • We then refused to apologize when fucking hamas of all people showed the receipts 2 days later with name, age, and Israeli-issued ID number

  • We also sent diplomats to Israel multiple times throughout the conflict and encouraged them to "defend" themselves

  • We also pretended that we have no ability to force a pause in the conflict, even though we recently admitted we successfully paused Israeli attacks twice to get US citizens through Rafah crossing

  • We blocked multiple UNSC resolutions even after forcing the changes through that we bitched about in the first place

  • We waited multiple days to even mention the islamophobic attack that led to a Palestinian boy being stabbed to death and his mother being hospitalized

  • We then patronized American Muslims by shifting the conversation to domestic islamophobia rather than actually addressing their grievances of America's decades of involvement in destabilizing the Muslim world and killing of innocent civilians

  • We silenced officials who spoke out against excessive violence by the IDF and made memos preventing the mention of a ceasefire

  • We sent 2 aircraft carriers to the Eastern Mediterranean to support Israel and ensure no neighboring nations could prevent the massacre against Gazan women and children

  • We pushed for tens of billions of dollars in aid to a country thousands of miles away led by an openly fascist and genocidal governing party. A country that we have sent over a hundred billion dollars of aid in total since its founding.

  • A member of our government (paraphrasing) said "civilians die in war 🤷‍♂️" without any reprimand

  • As commander-in-chief, we authorized American military specialists to help plan the ground invasion into Gaza

  • We didn't give a damn about hundreds (at least) of Palestinian-Americans who were literally starving to death and were stuck in Gaza as it was bombed for weeks

  • So many more things I could write an essay on it

Biden administration:

[-] Crikeste@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

*billions of dollars

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[-] Aceticon@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago

Yeah, well, Joe already knew Israel was ruled by a Fascist well before he hitched his country to the choices of said Fascist with his "unwavering support" speech and sending another shipment of weaponry and ammo.

It's like entering a bank alongside a guy wearing a ski mask and carrying a submachine gun, loudly declaring "unwavering support" for him and openning up a suitcase with a broad selection of handheld guns and saying "Would you like some more?": you can hardly honestly claim you're not in on the subsequent bank robbery after doing something like that.

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[-] xc2215x@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Joe might have to stop backing Israel.

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[-] jaybone@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

This belongs in nottheonion

[-] sirboozebum@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I can't help be cynical that this sudden concern comes at the same time that Arab American Organisations have indicated they may ask their communities to sit out the next election.

[-] hark@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Never has the moniker Sleepy Joe been so applicable.

[-] Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Better late than never, I fucking guess...

[-] febra@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Next time there's a UNSC vote on a ceasefire: US veto

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this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2023
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