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submitted 1 year ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

Ultra-white ceramic cools buildings with record-high 99.6% reflectivity::undefined

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[-] RGB3x3@lemmy.world 106 points 1 year ago

You know what also cools houses down super efficiently?

Trees

[-] Matty_r@programming.dev 42 points 1 year ago

Excellent - how many trees can I grow on my roof? Can they be retrofitted?

/s

[-] 0ddysseus@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Trees? Not many. Grasses, herbs, wildflowers, and shrubs? Tons of them. And you can pretty easily retrofit over an existing sloped roof. And the weight is no more than a tiled roof.

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[-] Pretzilla@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You know what cools roofs and generates electricity? Magic!

Another trick: bifacial panels oriented to pick up the reflected light from highly reflective roofs

[-] WereCat@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

What about Ultra white ceramic trees?

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[-] echo64@lemmy.world 102 points 1 year ago

NightAHawkinLight on youtube has been working on something similar. same kind of snow-like nanostructure to reflect light away, but with the added benefit of a paint that emits light in a wavelength that travels through the atmosphere without interacting with any of it.

so if you point a painted tile at the sky it will actually cool below ambient temperature, it's pretty wild https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3bJnKmeNJY

[-] Thorry84@feddit.nl 69 points 1 year ago

Tech Ingredients did a video about it as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNs_kNilSjk

The biggest problem with making stuff white and using fancy materials is the amount of crap they get exposed to.

Moisture is one issue, both in the form of water vapor / condensation as well as rain. But there's also smallish animals, like birds and cats that crawl around on roofs. Not to mention all the insects. Then there is the normal sand and dust in the air, plus all the pollution. Depending on where you live, white stuff gets really dirty within weeks or months.

I work in a white office building and they have it cleaned with pressure washers twice a year, it takes a whole climbing team a good two weeks to clean the whole thing and it looks dirty again after a few months. And that's just a white form of plastic (HPL) you can blast away on, without causing damage. With these fancy meta materials often they are really fragile and any damage undoes the special properties.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 8 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

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[-] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

They could just put a layer of something like Teflon over it. That's why crosswalk stripes feel so slick.

[-] Thorry84@feddit.nl 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you put something over it, it loses it's reflective properties. Something is only as reflective as it's upper most layer. Unless you use something transparent, but even things we would commonly think of as transparent usually are only transparent at specific wavelength. And even then it's probably not really transparent, more like translucent. Not to mention things like internal reflections and wavelength lengthening.

This is a super complex subject with many people all over the world working on it and lots of money being put into it. It likely everything people can think of has been thought of and we need some real effort to get to a workable solution. Since no commercial application has been found, it's not certain this is a fixable problem.

Too often we see innovative ideas and they are marketed as this is just the first version. We can work out the kinks, extrapolate and get to something real special. In reality this is often not the case, actual limitations apply and not all problems are fixable.

[-] schmidtster@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Those are slick from the added glass powder for reflectivity.

Who’s putting Teflon on road stripes…?

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[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 8 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

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[-] Tvkan@feddit.de 59 points 1 year ago

In other news, snow blindness is on the rise in suburbia.

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[-] neptune@dmv.social 39 points 1 year ago

Super awesome. Not only is it white and shiny aluminum oxide, it uses a nanostructure, as observed on beetles, to maximize reflection, minimizing heat retained.

[-] tetris11@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago

What's the gains in contrast to regular white bathroom tiles? (Not a joke question)

[-] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 37 points 1 year ago

But what about it getting dirty and how well does it resist having its nano structure getting damaged? Like, there's that spray that can make sneakers or clothes virtually stainproof....until you wear them several hours or rub your hand against them.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago

Probably illegal here because of the high reflective value. Depending on the sun's position, it could dazzle and blind people, e.g. people driving cars or riding bikes. I know that for this reason, shiny metal roofs are not allowed.

[-] KapiteinPoffertje@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

There is a difference between mirror like reflection and diffuse reflection. Mirror reflection is what you get with metal roofs which beam the sun directly to a target resulting in one spot being blinded. Diffuse reflection will spread it around, resulting in more light all around which is what we can handle as humans.

[-] Silentiea@lemm.ee 31 points 1 year ago

Can mostly handle. Snow blindness is a thing, and that's all diffuse reflection too, not specular. But it's unlikely a roof would be such a problem.

[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

The reason for snow blindness is the fact the snow fills such a high portion of the visual field.

[-] Silentiea@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

Yeah, hence it's unlikely a roof would fill it to the same extent and wouldn't be a problem.

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[-] AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

It's not visibly reflective. Yes, it's white, but it's cool to the touch because the majority of the energy is radiated out into space via non-visible wavelengths. Someone has already posted a great YouTube video from Night Hawk In Light in a comment where he explains how this tech works and makes his own paint!

Yeah, it's good to read the article before commenting.

Here's a link to the Night Hawk video. Good stuff. https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=KDRnEm-B3AI This guy just gives away a formula he developed for the pigment. OG shit.

[-] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

Him, Thought Emporium and Breaking Taps are in their own league of genius.

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[-] rubikcuber@feddit.uk 24 points 1 year ago

Scotland here. Does this come in black?

[-] ItsMeSpez@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Would we ever be able to use a material like this to reflect a significant enough portion of the light falling on Earth to reduce the total heat imparted by sunlight in a meaningful way? Could we use this as defacto ice caps to perhaps reduce global temperatures in any real way?

[-] kautau@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Probably yeah, but more likely it would have to be atmospheric and not surface based. When Mount Pinatubo erupted in 1991 it was estimated that the global temp dropped about 0.5 degrees C over the ensuing year due to the ash cloud blocking the sun

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs113-97/

[-] BlueBockser@programming.dev 10 points 1 year ago

So the actual solution to climate change is to light everything on fire so the smoke cover cools down earth

[-] kelseybcool@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Ah, the Dinosaurs solution.

[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

The only feasible plan we have for increasing the albedo of the planet overall is atmospheric engineering. Basically you can make a reflective cloud that’s millions of square miles in area, many orders of magnitude more cheaply than any other kind of structure.

[-] trackindakraken@lemmy.whynotdrs.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Covering our roofs with it would certainly make a difference. BUT, it works in the winter too, cooling the house when we want it warm. So, that might increase the need for heating in the winter.

Personally, I'm waiting for a commercial product, because my NM house has a large, south-facing stucco wall that is currently white, but not ultra cool white. Given my experience with the house, which is well insulated, I expect I could paint the house with such paint and not need any other cooling, even when it hits 100+F here. That wall is my bedroom wall, and I can feel the heat pushing through it in the late afternoon after a full day of exposure to the sun.

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[-] jam12705@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Is this what they meant about a "bright future ahead of us"?

[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Imperial March begins to play

[-] Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My thoughts exactly at first glance! At least, now we know why some people think storm troopers are so cool.

[-] gregorum@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

Next trick: make it into a paint or spray-on treatment.

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[-] schmidtster@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

So there’s gotta be a downside to reflecting all this heat though?

I know windows sometimes can focus and reflect the sun setting your neighbours house on fire, birds aren’t going to affected, bugs?

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

It looks like this reflects and scatters the light, rather than reflects and focuses it. Otherwise it would look like a mirror, not a ceramic.

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[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Why ceramic and not just paint?

[-] WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

The article addresses that. It is because ceramics are durable while paints and coatings are not.

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[-] Astongt615@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

Most coatings like paint that have this effect include ceramics to do most of the reflection, but the other paint stuff the ceramic substrate is emulsified in does not have near the reflectivity, so you're impairing yourself if reflectivity/heat rejection is the only goal.

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this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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