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submitted 11 months ago by littlecolt@lemm.ee to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Plastic seals food, sterile medical implements, medicine, beverages, etc... it's seems like plastic is used as a way to seal things safely. Post pandemic rising, I see even more. My work used to be have plastic utensils in the cafeteria, for example, an already wasteful thing. Now, post-2020, every fork, knife, and spoon is individually wrapped in a plastic wrapper. I feel like the more my desire to escape plastic intensifies, the more plastic I see all around me everywhere.

How can we get away from plastic as a safety layer?

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[-] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 93 points 11 months ago

We don't need to ban every single bit of plastic. It's fine to keep it where it's absolutely necessary. Some of the examples you provided definitely aren't necessary though, like individually wrapped cutlery (wtf) or beverages (can use glass).

[-] psivchaz@reddthat.com 27 points 11 months ago

So many things are unnecessarily wrapped in plastic. We use bubble wrap in situations where paper would be a perfectly fine buffer for shipping. We use plastic bags when paper and reusable bags work perfectly well.

I get so frustrated about it not even because I'm scared of the environmental impact of all this plastic floating around, although that does suck, but because plastic is currently absolutely crucial for modern medicine. One day maybe we'll find alternatives but until then I think a rational society would be preserving the limited life-saving miracle material for uses that aren't as basic as "use it to take home groceries, then throw it away."

[-] pugsnroses77@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago

the same issue is happening with helium. its crucial for a lot of forensic processes and scientific research but we are rapidly running out of helium. but haha balloon go up!

[-] blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This has never been true. The 'great helium shortage' was just complaining about not being able to get cheap helium.

We are more than capable at capturing it from fracking and other sources. We just didn't want to since it costs money lol.

Why the news ran with it for years is beyond me when it was one google search away from being debunked lol.

https://www.innovationnewsnetwork.com/how-helium-gas-obtained/32109/

[-] psivchaz@reddthat.com 9 points 11 months ago

Doesn't the truth still remain through that it's not an unlimited resource, it's absolutely crucial for modern life, but also we use large quantities of it on absolutely mundane bullshit?

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[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 35 points 11 months ago

Canada is in the process of "banning single-use plastics". Although you still see them everywhere, there are many places that have switched some stuff like plastic grocery bags, plastic straws and plastic utensils to cloth grocery bags, paper straws and wooden utensils.

[-] bl4ckblooc@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago

The point OP is making still holds true in Canada though. I can’t go buy a plastic bag at my grocery store, but the store can use a ridiculous amount of wrap to sell produce, and there are tons of food products where you buy a bag full of smaller bags(and some full of even smaller bags. Pre-made salad is a big one) that I can buy easily and usually for fairly cheap.

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[-] bacondragonoverlord@feddit.de 33 points 11 months ago

Well for one: most of the things listed already have a solution:

Food? Glassware and Metal containers. Or Even reusable single type plastic containers, like a tupperware.

Sterile medical supplies already are packed in a paper bag. The ones that are in plastic actually aren't.

Medicine can also be packed into glass and metal containers.

Beverages can be put in cans or Reusable Glass bottles or you simply drink tap water. (I know in some countries that's not safe but it should be)

And honestly your cafeteria is the most ridiculous example. Get a dishwasher and use real cutlery. Or bring your own cutlery from home. (Is it actually a cafeteria or just a glorified break room?)

[-] rbesfe@lemmy.ca 31 points 11 months ago

Sterile medical supplies already are packed in a paper bag. The ones that are in plastic actually aren't.

Uh... What? Sterile medical instruments are absolutely packed in plastic, paper is too permeable and will lead to contamination. Even if it looks like paper it's still lined with plastic. Have you ever worked in a medical setting before?

[-] Aleric@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Same for science. I have autoclaved thousands of things. Most get packed into something like these.

[-] minyakcurry 7 points 11 months ago

Me putting paper into the autoclave for the sake of the environment

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[-] knightly@pawb.social 25 points 11 months ago

My only note here is that canned beverages have a layer of non-recyclable plastic on the inside to prevent chemical interactions between the contents and the metal. Glass bottles are fine though as (aside from plastic labels) they're fully recyclable.

[-] onion@feddit.de 5 points 11 months ago

Even better, they are reusable

[-] shalafi@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

I loathe plastic waste, but here's a conundrum I read about.

Elementary school kids learned about environmentalism, wanted to do better. They got the school to dump plastic utensils and plates in favor of steel. No brainer, right?

Turns out the energy cost for making the steel meant they would have to wash those items 1,000+ times to make up for the plastic energy production. Still, no brainer, right?

Then they added in the energy costs for washing those items 1,000+ times. Not remotely worth doing. (Factor in loss, it's even worse.)

We got ourselves in a hella mess. Getting off plastic is going to mean cheap, clean and abundant energy. I mean shitloads of power. I'm all in for nuclear, at least as a stopgap.

[-] Zak@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

The primary concern with single-use plastics is not energy consumption but plastic waste. That, of course raises the question of how to weigh one kind of environmental harm against another, and I do not have a good answer.

My instinct here is that not generating so much trash is the energy use in this case, but I can't prove that.

[-] bacondragonoverlord@feddit.de 8 points 11 months ago

It's a balancing act for sure. You have to understand what's good for the climate isnt necessarily good for the environment. However I believe we have to understand that cleaning up the plastic in the world is imho harder than recapturing co2 since you can't just build a big machine wherever you want and it does it's job. Plastic you have to hunt down manually, and good luck doing that for micro plastics

But I don't think your example works as well as eg plastic Vs glas bottles. Your energy dilemma can be solved simply by having photovoltaic panels and/or hooking the dishwasher up to a renewably generated hot water supply.

Also even in your calculations which I assume are not optimised 2000+ wash cycles is only like 6 years of use. And I still think that's a no brainer.

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[-] kaffiene@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago

Start with the easy wins and replace the others as options come available. We don't have to fix everything at once.

[-] bartolomeo@suppo.fi 23 points 11 months ago

One way is to keep the plastic but make it out of something renewable instead of out of petroleum products. It can have the same short term properties but eventually disintigrate instead of turning into microplastics or releasing harmful particles when burned.

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[-] curiousaur@reddthat.com 19 points 11 months ago

Ban them and let the market figure it out. They always do.

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[-] Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 11 months ago
[-] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago

The solution is not perfect though...

Life cycle analysis studies show that some bioplastics can be made with a lower carbon footprint than their fossil counterparts, for example when biomass is used as raw material and also for energy production. However, other bioplastics' processes are less efficient and result in a higher carbon footprint than fossil plastics.

[-] PupBiru@kbin.social 22 points 11 months ago

the plastic problem is separate from the carbon problem though… we don’t ban plastics because we’re concerned about climate change; we ban them because we are worried that microplastics are causing significant health effects to both humans and most other animals

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[-] Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 11 months ago

Obviously. I doubt bioplastic had even 1/100 of the money and research of their fossil counterparts.

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[-] RBWells@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago

I don't think individual shrink wrapping of utensils is a necessary use, every time I pull that thin plastic off something I think we are all going to hell.

But as others have noted, we don't need to eliminate all use, we need to radically reduce use and find a technology to deal with the remaining amount.

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[-] PlasterAnalyst@kbin.social 17 points 11 months ago

Single use consumer plastics should be banned.

[-] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

It'd be better to come up with ways to efficiently break them down chemically so they can be remade into new plastic.

[-] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

How can we get away from plastic as a safety layer?

We don't need to get away totally.

It will be good enough if we avoid most of it.

[-] Chobbes@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I’m probably going to hell for saying this, but… I’m not that worried about plastic pollution? Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to minimize single use items and plastic ending up places it shouldn’t, but if it’s the best option for food / medical safety or cheaply producing something with a lower carbon footprint… we should probably just use it without too much guilt? The world is almost certainly better because of plastic in my opinion.

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this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
209 points (94.8% liked)

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