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submitted 9 months ago by azimir@lemmy.ml to c/fuck_cars@lemmy.ml

The measure to make vehicles weighing 1.6 tons and over pay 3x the parking rates for the first two hours has passed in Paris.

Now, let's get that in place for London and many other other places to help slow, and even reverse, this trend towards massive personal vehicles.

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[-] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 38 points 9 months ago

I might be wrong but most people who live and work in Paris don't drive. They have great public transit and there's a huge walking culture. When I was in Paris the only large vehicles I saw where taxis.

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago

Your impression seems correct. I haven't manged to get to Paris yet, but the numbers I found align with your experiences. From a transport in Paris article:

"Paris has one of the most sustainable transportation systems in the world (private cars are only 12% of the overall traffic)"

"According to a 2018 INSEE survey, a majority of Parisians (64.3 percent) use public transport to get to work. Only 10.6 percent commuted to work by automobile. 10.5 percent walked or used roller skates; 5.5 percent commuted by bicycle; and 4.4 percent commuted by motorbike"

The local residents use public transit or walk/bike for work. They likely do exactly the same for daily errands, shopping, and entertainment. That's how it was in Berlin, London, and Helsinki when I was in those cities and it's wonderful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Paris

[-] MelaniaTrump@hexbear.net 37 points 9 months ago

Fuck cars but especially fuck SUVs

[-] HonestMistake_@lemmy.ml 23 points 9 months ago

But also fuck those pickup truck monstrosities.

[-] InfiniteStruggle@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 months ago

Aren't those classed as SUVs? Is there a pickup truck class?

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 21 points 9 months ago

TLDR: driving giant SUVs is ok as long as you're rich.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 28 points 9 months ago

This is both not enough and better than nothing.

[-] nohaybanda@hexbear.net 11 points 9 months ago

It's a good first step. The second one, of course, being redacted-1redacted-2.

[-] wopazoo@hexbear.net 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Are you against any sort of tax for oversized vehicles? Do you also believe that congestion pricing "hurts poor people"?

Also, giant SUVs are only accessible to the rich anyways. No poor person is driving around an Audi Q8 or a Cadillac Escalade, they take the train.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago

When giant SUVs are only accessible to the rich anyways, then the whole premise of tripling parking fees is meaningless to begin with. And yes, I'm against the idea of trying to solve the problem using a tax because it's a performative measure that accomplishes nothing of real value while distracting from real solutions. I believe this accomplishes about as much as carbon taxes.

[-] wopazoo@hexbear.net 9 points 9 months ago

When giant SUVs are only accessible to the rich anyways, then the whole premise of tripling parking fees is meaningless to begin with.

Driving your car seems free because you've already paid for it yesterday at the pump. Expensive parking puts a real, visible price on driving that you have to confront every single day.

The rich doesn't solely consist of Jeff Bezos and co. Most people who drive luxury SUVs cannot afford tripled parking prices in the city every day. And even if they could, this forces them to reconsider their habits and maybe take the train next time.

And yes, I'm against the idea of trying to solve the problem using a tax because it's a performative measure that accomplishes nothing of real value while distracting from real solutions.

This is not a performative measure, this is the real solution. Driving needs to become multiple times more expensive, and a tripled parking price is a good place to start. Drivers are heavily subsidized by society and this subsidy needs to end, and these taxes are the first step in that direction.

I believe this accomplishes about as much as carbon taxes.

You can't be fucking serious lol.

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[-] D61@hexbear.net 14 points 9 months ago

If nothing else, its making the "Pro-Driving Big Things Just Because I Can" people mad and I'm all for it.

[-] CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago

No one drives in Paris who's not already rich, the public transportation there is great

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[-] RoabeArt@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago

"Punishable by fine" is just another way of saying "it's legal if you can afford it."

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[-] aqwxcvbnji@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The question was if heavier cars should pay more. Heavier cars are more expensive to buy, so this means that people who can afford a big car, will pay more. It's a sort of progressive taxation by proxy.

For context: don't forget that this isn't the US: not everyone drives an SUV/pick-uptruck. Here you can see the size of the most popular car in France, compared to a pick-up truck.

[-] PanArab@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago

As it should. Be the heavier the car the more dangerous it is for pedestrians and the more destructive it is for infrastructure.

[-] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 14 points 9 months ago

Good. Fucking hate those things.

[-] Satanic_Mills@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago

All this arguing over progressive fining versus just slashing the tyres of all parked SUVs you see.

[-] wopazoo@hexbear.net 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

tyre extinguishers are based as fuck and they have caused a nonzero amount of people to reconsider their purchase of an SUV or to not drive their SUV downtown

[-] exocortex@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 9 months ago

I had this idea of putting construction foam into the exhaust.

[-] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 11 points 9 months ago

I own an SUV and I'd still vote for a parking tax on them. Or pay per pound, estimated of course. You don't want people deciding to go for the mega F-250s because they aren't subject to the SUV tax.

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[-] BoxedFenders@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago

The SUVs in Europe are also smaller on average than the behemoths on American roads. The largest ones you will come across in France will be BMW X5 sized. And while they are large, they are utterly dwarfed by SUVs like the Suburban, Sequoia and Escalade. An Escalade vs X5 comparison here.

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 7 points 9 months ago

Indeed! It's really hard to explain just how much smaller the traffic feels in European cities, even when there's lots of vehicles they're still less massive overall. I have taken video footage of traffic in a few different European cities just to show people how much smaller, quieter, and less dense rush hour traffic is. Even when comparing it to my US mid-sized city's traffic.

It's just nicer to be around roads with fewer and smaller cars.

[-] NeelixBiederman@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago

So any car over 3,200lbs. my subcompact Honda Fit weighs 2300lbs. The 2024 Honda Accord weighs 3200lbs. I know eu has many more subcompact options than the US, cuz every car available here is basically an increasingly egg shaped amalgam of station wagon SUVs that weigh 4k lbs.

[-] jonne@infosec.pub 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I was wondering how they would define what an SUV would be. If they're using weight, won't they be charging a bunch of electric cars extra too?

[-] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago

Electric Cars aren't a better alternative to "fewer cars."

[-] wopazoo@hexbear.net 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

One electric car is better than one gasoline car, because electric cars don't fart toxic gases into the air where everyone's trying to breathe.

I'd take 10 electric cars over 7 gasoline fart cans any day of the week.

[-] D61@hexbear.net 5 points 9 months ago

But we're talking a very large city where the goal isn't to make driving a car more expensive "just because" its to reduce the number of cars in town.

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[-] HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 months ago

As they should. This is foremost a measure to make cars smaller and allow for less dangerous and stressful daily commutes by foot/bicycle.

[-] D61@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago

From the article, its mostly about weight with Electric Cars having a higher weight threshold than Non-Electric Cars.

Also from the article, its not a ban, its just higher parking prices. So if you've got the cash, you can drive an H3 into downtown Paris all you want.

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[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago

Yup. EVs also run into the tonnage limit quickly too. A Tesla Model 3 single engine is 1.75 tons (no extra parking costs), but the dual motor is over 2 tons.

The US has way too many vehicles that should be about 20-30% smaller and lighter for basic city driving. Even the "small" vehicles aren't small anymore.

[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago

In other news: Peugeot and Renault announce 1.59 ton Urban Utility Vehicles.

[-] oscardejarjayes@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago

For a second I thought it said "block" instead of "back", and I was disappointed. Nice to see they're trying to do something about the issue.

[-] Bloobish@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago
[-] Auzy@beehaw.org 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I drive a Jeep (the unlimited though, so the large one). Good..

I want to see a trend towards smaller 4wd's and other cars. And I seem to be the only larger car that can park within the lines too. And the height of my car is low compared to the people with Rangers or Dodge Ram's (and it is rare to see any of those actually towing anything). In my case, I run a hiking group, so really need a 4wd, but will probably be looking at something more economical and smaller, like a jimny

I was hit by a car once when I was on my scooter, and I was lucky it was by a small car..

And I feel larger cars like me should pay extra (and I agree with some comments saying to charge per additional weight). We have a toxic culture here where people are moving towards big cars just to impress others (along with the toxic nonsense that comes along with it), and this is the only way the culture will change

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this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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