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cross-posted from: https://ttrpg.network/post/4222671

Want a 3D printer in New York? Get ready for fingerprinting and a 15 day wait

Assembly Bill A8132 has been assigned a "Same As" bill in the Senate: S8586 [NYSenate.gov] [A8132 - 2023]

I don't own a gun, I never have and I don't plan to at any time in the future. But if these pass in the NYS Senate and Congress, it would be required to submit fingerprints for a background check then wait 15 days, before you could own any "COMPUTER OR COMPUTER-DRIVEN MACHINE OR DEVICE CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A THREE-DIMENSIONAL OBJECT FROM A DIGITAL MODEL."

This isn't even going to stop any crimes from happening, for pity sakes regular guns end up in criminal charges all the time, regardless of background check laws. How about some real change and effective measures, rather then virtue-signaling and theater illusion for a constituency?

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[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 59 points 8 months ago

As usual, I have to wonder first if anyone actually put any thought into this, and further if anyone thought how the fuck they're going to enforce it. This is just manufacturing one step removed... Anyone willing to make a gun with a 3D printer is certainly capable and willing of building their own 3D printer as well.

Or buying/building a milling machine. Or a lathe. Or a drill, a hacksaw, and some files.

Down this road lies madness.

[-] GooseFinger@lemmy.world 27 points 8 months ago

If they cared more about making our society safer, they'd pay teachers more, build more homes, quintuple minimum wage, make education cheaper or free, actually tax the rich, reign in corpos, reform the police, abolish for profit prisons, make healthcare affordable and accessible, remove money from politics, just to start.

But nah, virtue signaling is way easier and is clearly enough to get them re elected, so let's ban 3D printers baby!

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Damn it's good to see this list. I've been preaching it for years now. Gun control is virtue signaling bullshit, it will not solve the problem because guns aren't the issue. Our society is deeply troubled and we need to fix the why's, and not the what tool was used.

I'd wager UBI and single payer safety nets alone would have violence over all drop by 50+%

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[-] astraeus@programming.dev 6 points 8 months ago

Or even better, just going across the state line and buying one.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Don't tempt them. New York cops will already pull over cars crossing the bridges and have been known to fine and/or arrest people for bringing in cigarettes bought out of state.

[-] seathru@lemm.ee 9 points 8 months ago

Or buying/building a milling machine. Or a lathe. Or a drill, a hacksaw, and some files.

15 day waiting periods for Home Depot trips. You better plan those plumbing projects in advance.

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[-] bamboo@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago

Wait it is illegal to bring cigarettes across state lines? Is that not a commerce clause issue?

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Tobacco is taxed at the state level. NY(C)'s tax is very high. Neighboring states' taxes are lower. Or have been, historically. Thus NY gets unreasonably angry about this if you pay the cig tax to a different state.

Mostly it's just a pretense to pull people over and harass them over nothing. But if they can't get you for anything else they've been documented to book individuals for possessing packs of smokes with the wrong tax stamp on them. Got two packs on you? Well, obviously that's "intent to resell!" Book 'em, boys.

[-] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago

It is if you're going to resell them. If they're for you whatever.

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[-] Pohl@lemmy.world 47 points 8 months ago

3d printed plastic guns are real in a sense but not in any practical way. I am not sure why so many people think this is a concern. If I have a box of ammo, I can probably go into my shop and come up with a way to fire it. I doubt I would use my 3d printer in that project though. There are better ways to makeshift a weapon.

[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 29 points 8 months ago

While I majorly disagree with this legislation, its not about plastic guns.

They only regulate the part of a gun that has the serial number, not the other parts. For "repairability." Guess what that one part is easily made of? Yup, plastic.

People are printing the easy part, and buying all the rest in metal. Proper control would be to regulate the sale of commercially manufactured replacement parts, not a tool.

[-] B0rax@feddit.de 11 points 8 months ago

Maybe start regulating normal guns more first… 3D printed guns are not a problem anywhere in the world.

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The lower receiver of an AR15 is legally considered the firearm. You can buy all other parts straight up, but you have to go through federal background checks on that one. Even with private sales, at least the first buyer would have to have gone through the process.

On its own, it's just a chunk of plastic or metal. It's not pressure bearing and isn't even all that mechanically stressed in typical use. Therefore, you can print that one part off, buy all other parts, bypass all checks, and have a completely unregistered AR15. It's not especially difficult to do, though it does involve a few specialized tools.

In the UK, regulation tends to be around pressure bearing parts, and this is a lot more sensible.

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[-] fidodo@lemmy.world 29 points 8 months ago

Man I want actual gun control not this bullshit.

[-] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

This is the crap your average gun owners have to deal with all the time. And with similar results for crime prevention, which leads to more and more hoops as legislators try more of the same.

All because they genuinely don't understand the subject matter or don't care but want to appeal to people who also don't know. Remember the "this is a ghost gun" speech?

Welcome to the shitshow, I'm truly sorry you're here. I just want to enjoy 3D printed doodads and neat non-printed range toys in peace.

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[-] mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

Nearly every law or bill in the last 40 years is crusted with bullshit no matter what the original intent or final result is.

Political posturing, like the fucking straws.

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[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 8 months ago

This bill would require literally every single commercial machinist in the state to also register. That's fucking retarded and every single manufacturing company left (what few there may be) will fight this tooth and nail.

[-] aelwero@lemmy.world 20 points 8 months ago

"COMPUTER OR COMPUTER-DRIVEN MACHINE OR DEVICE CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A THREE-DIMENSIONAL OBJECT FROM A DIGITAL MODEL."

I can print an origami pattern on my inkjet using my cell phone...

[-] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

People can produce 3D objects from digital models. It's called, checks notes, sculpting!

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[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

ITT: Many people make the incorrect assumption that, aside from some specific state- and city-level ordinances, there is such a thing as "firearm registration" in the US.

This is a myth largely promulgated by TV shows about cops. There is no nationwide firearms registry in the United States.

Regulation != Registration.

What does happen is that when a firearm is legally purchased from a dealer (FFL), the buyer must submit to and pass a federal background check. Records of these are not retained centrally, but each FFL dealer must maintain their own records of their own sales, indefinitely, as long as they remain in business. Ready to be reviewed at any time by the cops or ATF. Failure to do so can land the dealer in very deep shit. Centralized collection of firearm transaction records is prohibited by federal law, under the assumption that such a central record would be used to target, harass, and confiscate arms from their owners whenever the government felt like it (which is probably about a 50/50 mix of paranoia and accurate prediction).

Some states also require their own more strict background checks. States also vary in how strict or lax they are in requiring background checks for transfers between private individuals, and not a dealer. There is no federal requirement for private sellers to conduct a background check to transfer ownership of a firearm except across state lines, but many states themselves do have such a requirement. Further, transfers and sales of handguns often have stricter state level requirements vs. long guns (rifles and shotguns).

3D printing a firearm (receiver) does not allow any individual to "evade" any type of mythical "registration," which by and large does not exist -- as above. It does, however, allow a suitably motivated individual who could not pass a federal or state background check to get their hands on a presumably functional firearm.

It is perfectly legal for a person who is not prohibited from possessing a firearm to begin with to manufacture their own firearm, via 3D printer or otherwise, on a federal level. Some states have already enacted restrictions on this, however.

It is already illegal for a person prohibited from possessing a firearm to A) manufacture a firearm, B) possess any firearm (duh), or C) possess ammunition for any firearm, whether they are found to have a firearm to put it in or not.

It is already illegal for a person to manufacture firearm(s) for the purposes of selling, trading, giving away, or otherwise putting into the possession of others, if they are not a federally licensed firearms manufacturer.

It is already illegal to provide access to a firearm to a person prohibited.

It is already illegal to use any manufacturing method (even a 3D printer) to produce a firearm or component that is otherwise illegal or restricted NFA item such as a machine gun, suppressor, short barreled rifle, etc., etc.

[-] muntedcrocodile@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

Me in aus realising i can be arrested for clicking many of the links in this thread lol.

[-] Technoguyfication@sh.itjust.works 15 points 8 months ago

What kind of dystopian hellhole do you live in where you can be arrested for clicking on a 3D model of a gun?

[-] muntedcrocodile@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

Its called australia but i would classify it as a nanny state

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[-] Marin_Rider@aussie.zone 8 points 8 months ago

one where we don't need to apply to buy a 3d printer

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[-] metaStatic@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago

don't worry they can just edit the database even if you don't

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[-] sj_zero@lotide.fbxl.net 10 points 8 months ago

lol

And just imagine, you can make a shitty gun for 20 bucks using parts from the local hardware store.

[-] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

MacGyver was doing it before it was cool.

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[-] NESSI3@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)
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[-] uis@lemm.ee 8 points 8 months ago

Time to make reprap.

[-] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 7 points 8 months ago

I think the reason is because legislators are looking for gun restrictions that can pass, and the combination of legislative obstruction and the Supreme Courts recent ruling against pretty much any gun law written after 1860 or something has basically made it impossible to regulate the purchase of actual guns. So now they're looking for whatever law they can pass regardless of whether it makes sense.

It's fucked up.

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[-] gullible@kbin.social 7 points 8 months ago

Don’t 3d printed guns crack after like 2 shots? Next they’re going to require ID to buy pipe and nails in order to guard everyone from modern improvised muskets.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

depends on the design, as well as the capability of the printer.

DMLS is capable of producing basically anything you can think of in metal. FDM or resin, or whatever... you're printing the frame.

the DEFCAD design, specifically, you're printing the AR lower receiver- which for some stupid reasons is designated as the "firearm" as far as laws and regulations go. So you can print the lower and buy the rest in cash as parts.that said, the only real function the lower serves in an AR is holding the magazine in place, so it's not really subjected to anything that's going to break it.

Incidentally, $40 at a big box store and a lot of TLC with a dremmel can produce a passable SMG. in fact... many of the ww2 era machine guns were designed to be made in factories that used to turn out plumbing parts. (because this reduced the amount of time and materials spent on retooling the production lines.)

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Incidentally, $40 at a big box store and a lot of TLC with a dremmel can produce a passable SMG.

Anyone interested should look up the Luty submachine gun.

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[-] JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Fully 3d printed ones, yes. But you can print all the plastic parts of a Glock, buy a kit of parts that don't require any verification at all and assemble a fully working one that is about as good as a genuine glock.
Or go a bit further with the FGC-9 or countless other similar things. The fewest actual gun parts used in successful firearms are in .22lr pepperboxes which use only barrel liners.

Here in Finland, I couldn't do any of that, because barrels, liners, trigger assemblies, magazines, ammo, they all require a background check and having a license to own a firearm. As would those printed Glock upper/lower parts, if I had access to the kits making them illegal to own.
Instead of, you know, the 3d printer?

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

What people are doing with "3D printed" guns is printing the receiver or frame components that are otherwise serial numbered and federally regulated, and populating those with metal barrels, slides, upper receivers, trigger assemblies, pins, springs, etc., as appropriate from the genuine item. These can be quite functional and durable, because the majority of the gun is, in fact, still made from "real" gun parts.

Clever individuals have gotten quite far in managing to print most of the required components, but several critical parts simply can't be made with consumer level printing technology. At present it is impossible to fully print a gun out of plastic and actually have it work.

The way federal law works, the ATF has identified and decided what constitutes the minimum identifiable major "gun part" of a given model of firearm, which is the part that must bear the serial number and is the component that cannot be sold without a background check through an FFL. For the Armalite platform, for instance, it is the lower receiver which is a component that can be 3D printed. The upper receiver is not a regulated part. For many polymer framed pistols like Glocks, the grip housing and frame is the FFL component. These can typically be 3D printed as well. But some guns, like the PTR/HK 91 and Sig P250 it's not the frame, it's the trigger assembly that's the FFL item. You can't effectively 3D print one of those -- although you could probably manufacture one with a milling machine pretty easily.

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[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

From a digital model

Get ready for analog printing, boys.

Also, if I move to New York, what then? I have to keep it in PA for two weeks?

[-] freedumb@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago

Punched cards making a comeback soon?

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[-] evidences@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

"Any 3d printer capable of printing a gun" seems pretty broad but wouldn't 3d print kits get around this easily. Like if I buy a prusa MK4 it can print gun parts out of the box but a pile of prusa mk4 parts ain't printing shit.

[-] mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

I don't really think anyone expects this political theater law to be effective in anything except suppressing the growing 3d printing community in one of the world's largest tech centers.

Shooting themselves in the foot with a good old fashioned normal gun, it seems.

[-] rxbudian@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

There are probably makerspaces in NY where people can drop in and print stuff. No waiting or fingerprinting there, even when you want to print gun parts

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this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024
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