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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by GuyFleegman@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/startrek@lemmy.world

Episode Information

No. Episode Written By Directed By Release Date
5x01 Red Directive Michelle Paradise Olatunde Osunsanmi 2024-04-04
5x02 Under The Twin Moons Alan McElroy Doug Aarniokoski 2024-04-04

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Today we embark on the final season of Discovery. I’m going make a simple request: whether you love it, hate it, or are ambivalent about it, it would make me so happy if everyone could just be cool. Online discussions about Discovery tend to devolve into circlejerks or two minute hates, and some see the latter in particular as justification to moderate the places where these discussions happen with a heavy hand.

I’m not interested in that kind of community. Online discussions are healthier when everyone is respectful and moderators only need to employ a light touch. So in the words of an ace pilot from another great sci-fi show: I am a friendly, okay? We're all friendlies. So, let's just... be friendly.

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[-] GuyFleegman@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Well, that was certainly an episode of Star Trek: Discovery. Actually, it might be one of Discovery’s most representative episodes.

Discovery at its worst: geez that warp chase scene was awful. It wasn’t a great use of How We Got Here because there wasn’t enough time between the flashback and the redux to make the flashback seem justified—the bulk of the episode happened after the redux anyways. It wasn’t a great use of Once More With Clarity, either. I guess they were going for some sort of dramatic Rayner reveal? But, the “revelation” that the Antares was shadowing Burnham that whole time wasn’t particularly interesting. Nothing was gained by temporally displacing that scene other than frontloading the action, which makes it seem like Discovery is scared to lead with a character moment or a story beat, as if their mentality is “we gotta get to the pew pew ASAP because that’s why the audience is here.”

It felt unearned, and was just another instance of Discovery borrowing things from better shows without adding anything or seemingly even understanding why what they borrowed worked in a different context. And of course, this teed up one of Discovery’s most obnoxious long-running tropes: Burnham knows she’s right and spends a few minutes exasperatedly explaining to an unwelcome guest with equivalent or higher authority than her to no avail. The thing that’s always weird about these scenes is the way Burnham keeps going even after it’s become very clear that the person she’s trying to convince isn’t having it. At that point, focus on getting into the ship, don’t continue the argument! These scenes always feel like Burnham is trying to make sure that the viewer knows she’s right rather than the other character.

I know she’s right. She’s always right.

Discovery at its best: The scene where Discovery and Antares save the settlement on Q’mau. This had all the bits and pieces of a classic Trek triumph: the heroes put the mission, their ships, and themselves at risk to save innocent lives because it’s the right thing to do and ultimately save the day thanks to quick thinking, creativity, and Starfleet's engineering prowess. This was actually the only sequence in the episode where the Burnham-Rayner interaction worked: Rayner’s calculated risk paid off but introduced a new complication, but Rayner was also pretty quick to concede that “ok yeah, to hell with this ‘Red Directive’ nonsense, innocent lives are at stake” and ceded authority to Burnham.

Visually, seeing Discovery and Antares literally shield the settlement was fantastic. The detail on the shields stopping the rockslide was great fun to watch. These have always been my favorite Discovery moments: classic Trek formula with modern effects and pacing.

Why I'm worried: Rayner. One of Discovery's quirks has always been what I call "the interloper," an external authority figured foisted onto the cast to either foil or assist Burnham depending on which direction the story needs to turn. Lorca and Pike were more pronounced instances of this quirk than Vance and Rilliak were, but all four seasons have done it.

Our season 5 interloper looks to be Rayner, and it looks like Rayner is going to be as prominent as Lorca and Pike were. And boy, I didn't find Rayner to be interesting or compelling at all. I've worked with far too many "I'm allowed to be a jerk because I'm right" types to be entertained by them, particularly when played straight. I really hope they do something more novel with Rayner, and quickly.

[-] RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 7 months ago

Agree with most of it. That intro with Michael riding on that ship at warp is exactly why I don't like Discovery all that much. It's always Michael, it's got to be Michael. Plus the way this was used as you pointed out was just not good.

Also the reasoning to get Tilly back on board later, eh, don't know, why not I guess. But why park a character at the academy teaching if you just get her back later with some half-baked excuse.

Same for Rayner, he has been retired as a Captain, despised working with Michael but of course she can persuade him to work as her Number One? Really? Sorry, but that does not make sense to me. I like him as a character though, so not too unhappy he sticks around.

But Michaels monologue about the progenitors at the beginning of episode 2 just nailed it in terms of what is not good about Discovery. Of course Michael recently thought about her existence, of course she has the drive to now look for answers the questions, but what if she does not understand. Always her her her. None of the other characters seem to matter.

I am quite excited they revive that progenitors plot from TNG, it is good material. However I am worried they only did so since they saw this is what saved Picard Season 03, fan service by bringing back as much TNG as necessary. So we will see. Cautiously optimistic, but it is still the Discovery that I don't quite like.

[-] ummthatguy@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Just working my way through the premier, but had to stop and remark upon the wonder of the everlasting....

Self-sealing stembolt! Captain Nog would be proud.

Further report/discussion pending.

[-] RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 7 months ago

Yes! I loved that it really looked exactly like the ones in DS9!

[-] teft@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Pretty good episodes. I love that they brought Book back even though he was supposed to be in jail. He's too good of a character to leave in jail for too long. I'm sad that Mr Saru is leaving. I hope he guest stars a bit. I wish we got to see more of the bridge crew like Owo and Detmer because I love them and want to meet the new people.

Also this new McGuffin seems pretty neat. I always wanted to know more about the Progenitors.

[-] ummthatguy@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

Tying in the fun single episode adventure from "The Chase" and integrating the creation mystery as this season's plot is a great move. Hopefully, they've built it out enough to have a fulfilling conclusion (especially since the string of reshoots that occurred when it was announced that this would be their last go). With Kurtzman's involvement and his association with JJ's brand of McGuffin storytelling, I will certainly temper my expectations.

[-] lazzerot@startrek.website 5 points 7 months ago

First impressions (to be continued when I watch the second episode next week)

5x01 Nice feelgood introductory episode (action scenes in warp, actions scenes in the desert, saving the population of a city through the power of ~~friendship~~ combined shields, Romulan tech, a lot of TNG references I didn't get because I never watched it but I'm sure it's good fanservice, Book's return, new Tilly storyline, new Saru story line, Kovich bringing in the unethical orders, Michael and Vance disregarding them etc etc) but I didn't like that it felt as if someone desperately wanted to introduce every new storyline in the first episode

[-] Stamets@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Well, you know me. The resident Discovery lover and defender. My comment will only be about the first episode, Red Directive, as it is the only episode I've seen thus far but let me just say this.

That might be the worst episode of Star Trek I have ever seen.

The opening I had no real issue with. Everyone hanging out and having a little party, Saru having a moment with T'Rina, all of that was great. But then suddenly the term Red Directive is thrown with increasing drama/intension like 3 times by 3 different people with 0 explanations. At least from what I saw anyway. I had to infer from context clues that a Red Directive is a mission that exists as part of the Federation structure, regardless of who is in charge and must be adhered to at all possible costs. Okay. Sure. Then the problems start almost immediately, the problems being for me primarily with the writing behind the scenes. Nothing really makes sense.

DISCO drops in on the ship, surprising Moloch (I'm not spelling both their names and more on that later). Moloch know exactly where they need to go so they head there, cloaking themselves. DISCO notes that they've cloaked themselves and then starts getting ready. Now, you'd fucking expect that they would have gotten ready and dropped in last second for the element of surprise, like the ship was literally designed for, right? Nope. Drop in to announce presence and then fuck about for a while getting ready. By the time the Away Team arrive in the room with the vault (tracking water vapor that Rhys points out), Owo mentions that it's been nearly 5 minutes since the lifesigns vanished and that they would need more time than that to crack Romulan encryption. Note that they cleared this room with visual detection despite knowing that these people can likely cloak themselves in some fashion. Personal cloaking isn't unknown in this new future and if they can fool sensors they can probably fool eyes. So, you know. Visual clear while ignoring all about the particles they were tracking to this room. They then made the brilliant deduction that the people would still have to be in the room (it's never made clear how they were able to break the Romulan encryption faster than they should be able to as Burnham said). They get jumped, unsurprisingly, and Burnham escapes narrowly. Moloch then throw a grenade at Burnhams feet which blasts her into space.

Here's where the Rise of Skywalker style convenience problems start. She just happens to see a glimmer of their cloak and heads to it. She magnetizes on and just happens to survive despite things not really being set up for that. I'll let that go but whatever. Rayner shows up and starts telling her that he knows them better because he's been tracking for a while but Burnham is insistent that she knows better and tells him to back off using, fucking hilariously, things being too personal as an excuse. She says she will track them. She of course fails because she did not know better after having been on the mission for like 4 hours. So she pulls a hail mary out of her ass and says Book!

Despite an insane sense of urgency being built up over this Red Directive stuff (still not explained), Burnham then drags her absolute ass in the corridor with Book having this huge lovey-dovey scene. He acts like "Aw shucks, I'm just helping people and trying to make right" for his fucking psychotic level of crimes against humanity. Yes I know that isn't the right word but I don't care. I'm angry. They spend so much time on this scene with them slowly fucking around that it makes Burnham look like she's valuing Book over the mission. They're SO SLOW! Book takes like 3 seconds to step onto the turbolift. It's fucking painful.

They get back into the briefing and Burnham is withheld information. Now I love this show and she has learned multiple times in multiple seasons the same lesson of "Follow orders and you don't always know better" so I hoped they wouldn't do it here again but of course they do. She starts getting suspicious. Okay, asking Tilly to look into it is fine. Wanting to know more is fine. She's still doing the job though right? Well, for now. They get through the briefing that actually has a sense of urgency and Book just happens to know the only sensible route to plot here of where they'd go. He just happens to know of the dealer on that planet. He also just happens to know vital information about surrounding terrain but that's for later. So they head to it. Rayner says he'll be an hour behind because he goes at warp. So if Moloch have the same tech as Antares and no faster, then by the time that Rayner reaches the planet they will be at least one hour ahead of him. But we know that they're further ahead than that because Burnham had to go get Book and waste time fucking about first. Vance then says they need to work together and Discovery, despite having a spore drive that can be there NOW, has to wait for the slower tech and nullify its literal purpose as a Rapid Response Vessel as Vance already designated it in Season 3.

So then we cut to Moloch whenever they arrive. They go see the dealer who is a Soong style android that demonstrates a total failure of every part of himself. There's also an insanely drawn out scene where he points out how the names of the two fugitives, Moll and L'ak, sound like two word sounds and would go well together. So, Moloch. The most hamfisted bullshit I can think of, especially when they were barely just named on screen. He acts like a cheap version of Lore and when a fight breaks out he has the most insanely slow response times one could imagine. He picks up a gun and fires it multiple times, it failing, before he thinks to get another gun. He then has to look for it, despite it being his fucking shop and him being an android. He gets it, spends a very long time aiming and fires it, missing, and then actually nods with a smile on his face when looking at the gun. L'ak then defeats him in hand to hand combat (with great ease) and Moloch leaves.

Burnham and Book arrive on the planet and have another lil meet cute waiting for Rayner. That's fine, they're waiting. But he arrives at an awkward time and makes a little joke and suggests getting to the mission and they get all high and mighty and act like he's the asshole, despite her wasting fuckloads of time up until now and they go to check out the corpse but are passed by two people on sandspeedster things. A few minutes later they realize it was Moloch. So what in the FUCK happened to that hour plus advance that Moloch had? They just spend it fucking about? There's a bomb that was planted (more later) but that cannot have taken longer than like 15 minutes at MOST. Probably considerably less with transporters. But nah, they're just barely ahead of them. And apparently taking their time because Rayner, Burnham and Book catch up to them. Moloch gets to their ship and fires directly on them and hits them multiple times. Shields block the hits. So either these sandspeedsters have shields that can withstand fire of a ship or the personal shields can. They don't even fucking flinch either. Like it's a guarantee that it'll hold.

They realize that there's a bomb in a tunnel Moloch are going to go into that will let them escape. Burnham yet again does her "No trust me, I'm totes right!" and Rayner rightfully is like "Not the fuck again" and orders the bomb and escape hatch destroyed. But it gives Moloch an idea to trigger an avalanche. Burnham then forces her ship and the Antares (after guilt tripping Rayner) to crashland into the planet to protect a settlement of a few thousand. By this point they are well aware that the threat being posed here is of Galactic importance and could probably shift the scales of power but Burnham is like "NO! There are a few thousand people! We can't let the terrorists get away with information about god knows what. We need to save these people!" Like I get it, it sucks and you wanna save everyone but there is a clear decision here with a line said by your own fucking brother on numerous occasions and I'm pretty fucking sure you at some point. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. So they crash the ships into the planet (whatever) and shield the settlement. Hurray. Yay. They're sitting around when the dust is clearing and Moloch then taunt them and fly off. Rayner is like "Wish I could say this was a pleasure" and beams out and I feel that with every ounce of my soul. Burnham and Book then get all lovey dovey before being emotional and romantic despite THERE BEING TERRORISTS YOU NEED TO KINDA FUCKING LOOK FOR WHILE YOU'RE THE FUCKING CAPTAIN. Yet when Tilly calls? Instant urgency.

To top it all off, Burnham then figures out where it is that Kovich is after and withholds the information from her superior officer, information that's so insanely classified and important that it's a Red Directive (STILL NOT FUCKING EXPLAINED) because she wants to know. She outright says either let me be part of this or I will let the terrorists go. Putting her own insane arrogance above anyone else.

Burnham has been on the same path with every season so far. Disobey orders, realize she shouldn't, start doing the right thing. Happened with Season 1 and 2 and 3. Season 4 had her follow orders begrudgingly and even before Book as the romantic reason she doesn't want to follow said orders. Now she's just back at it again. Me me me me me. I'm tired of it. I loved her and I've been frustrated with the repetition but now I'm just tired of it and tired of her whole character. She doesn't learn anything.

The writing for this episode was fucking atrocious and I am seriously concerned about the rest of the season.

Genuine rating: 1/10.

[-] goldteeth@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 7 months ago

I'd just like to say, after spending the previous four season of Disco on "everything sunny all the time always" /r/startrek, it's real refreshing to be able to come to an episode discussion and see one of the top mods just straight up going "child, what the fuck was that?"

Glad I'm not the only one bugged to hell by the "This is a Red Directive." "Hi, audience here, what is that?" "idk bro you figure it out lol" routine. This is the, like, fifth damn synonym for "super-duper double-dog extra important top-secret thing" you've come up with, guys, just pick a lane already, or else five years from now we're gonna end up with a season-long arc about a General Order Black Code Double-Red Priority Level One Section Alpha 31 Critical Omega Alert Directive.

I'm not sure which would be more obnoxious: if "Red Directive" turns out to just be exactly what I've already inferred from context, making all the sinister cryptic vagueness completely unnecessary; or if six episodes from now they pull the rest of the context out of their ass and try to act like it's a major revelation, like, "ooh, haven't you forgotten captain, if you fail a red directive mission it means you go to space jail and we blow up your ship???"

They've got what could be an incredibly significant story arc going here, and I'm gonna be a little miffed if they spend the bulk of it getting repeatedly pantsed by a couple of horny street urchins instead of, like, pondering the vast untapped mysteries of the ancient cosmos or some shit.

[-] Stamets@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

Like I love this show and I can defend a lot of it. I do defend a lot of it. I hate it when people say STD because it's flagrantly insulting for no reason to both the franchise and the show. I hate when people bash it for no reason. I hate some valid criticisms (although I do admit they are valid). I am a Discovery fan through and through. Fuck sakes I've got the Discovery model on my desk in front of me.

But this was the worst episode of Star Trek I've ever seen and it genuinely sent me into a depressive spiral with how excited I was for this final season to be presented with that.

[-] goldteeth@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 7 months ago

Yeah, it's just frustrating going into what should be a final victory lap for the whole show, one last grand send-off for the crew, and:

A) having to wait until the very end of the episode before you even get a clear answer about what the plot is you're supposed to care about, and

B) having the whole episode center around a conflict that is only an issue because the characters keep making dumb mistakes that we know they're way too smart to make, and that only gets progressed because they keep stumbling into favorable contrivances like being shot through the hull of a warbird at just the right angle to spot a cloaked ship taking off.

Ideally you'd want it the other way around, smart protagonists driving the plot forward with their smart decisions and a competent antagonist that's unpredictable enough to stay a few steps ahead. That's why the last four seasons worked, really, the bulk of the overarching conflict came from the crew being made to punch way above their weight class, and having to just stop and puzzle out how to take down an entire alien crusade or a time-travelling cyborg or some Cthulhu monsters that are so far ahead of the rest of the galaxy that they literally don't even notice that they're vacuuming up inhabited planets. Not as much fun watching a seasoned Starfleet crew getting routinely bodied by shots we've seen easily dodged a half-dozen times already. How long have we been playing "whoops, the bad guys got away and we can't track them" game, at this point, and they're still falling for it? Or the "whoops, Burnham thought she knew better than the people in charge and the bad guys used it to sucker-punch us" game? Like, c'mon, it's the end of the show, I think you can let the character development stick just this once.

Also? Kinda annoyed that like half the crew is getting sidelined for Burnham and Book to have just-like-old-times-adventure #17 featuring some crusty old rando sniping from the peanut gallery. I'd like to spend a little more than one scene per episode with the rest of the supporting cast before the end of the series, maybe that's just me. So far it feels like there's been more Stamets in this comment thread than there's been Stamets on the show.

[-] Stamets@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

Stamets had like one scene that whole episode, didn't he? The opening party thing where he's talking about the Luminary stuff. I don't remember him at any other point.

They bring Owo and Rhys onto an Away team and then treat them like absolute chumps and toss them away.

Like I actually kinda like Rayner because he's not putting up with Burnhams shit. When he said "I wish I could say it's been a pleasure" and beams out at the end of the episode I actually 100% agreed with him. I never thought I'd be on his side but I am. How is it that a captain shows up for a singular episode and already proves directly that he cares more about structure and order than you do?

The Burnham doing the same thing for a thousandth time thing is what killed her character for me. I can't root for her anymore. She is objectively a bad person. She's been given chance after chance after chance and fucked almost every one of those up but still gets given another one. She's the Starfleet version of a white middle aged CEO at this point. She can only fail upward and get away with everything. No consequences for fuck all. At any point. And yeah I don't care about Book either. Dude detonated illegal weapons and violated so many laws but nah, lets get him back because he just happens to know a thing. Bet he's not being dropped off back to continue his punishment though. Nah there's gonna be some contrived reason to keep him on board so Burnham and Book can have another lovey dovey thing. I would not be surprised if Burnham sacrifices herself at the end of the season to protect the crew and Book and honestly if she does I will legitimately cheer and whoop that Starfleets worst Captain (easily outranking Jelico) is finally dead and can't harm the Federation anymore.

If you told me 3 months ago that Id be saying that I would have given you a warning for stuffing words down my mouth that I'd never agree with. Now I'm one of the biggest people wanting her to die. It's ruined any rewatch value too. I'm so angry.

[-] az04@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Pretty standard DIS episode, awith fate-of-the-galaxy stakes. The action scenes are always so boring, let's see some puzzle cracking! Also, if your Captain is constantly running point on away missions, they might be a thrill seeker. Beware the cliff edges.

this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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