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It's the same as with Linux, GIMP, LibreOffice or OnlyOffice. Some people are so used to their routines that they expect everything to work the same and get easily pissed when not.

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[-] ExecutorAxon@vlemmy.net 50 points 1 year ago

My biggest takeaway with open source projects is this:

Theres there's a HUGE jump from being power user friendly to being user friendly in general. Significantly bigger than the jump from dev/contributor users to power users.

UX is something huge companies spend a lot of time and money on to ensure the layman can use the software well, something open source developers do not have the luxury of caring about from the get go.

Power users do not recognize the inbuilt muscle memory they have acquired over time to get around some of the more nagging aspects of the software and get frustrated with new users for not doing the same, while these new users get frustrated at things not being straightforward, or similar to some other software they're used to.

IMO this push and pull is what is truly preventing a Linux desktop experience that is truly layman friendly. But when it works, and an open source project can slowly start putting more of their time into UX when the project is more mature, then it truly starts kicking ass.

Look at how far Blender has come since the 3.0 update. A lot of studios are straight up switching to it for a lot of work that was traditionally Max or Maya based. Obviously you still have some of the "old guard" who felt a little alienated with the sweeping changes from 2.7 to 3, but I feel blender is objectively better for most people since then.

TL;DR: OSS always deals with different competing needs for power users vs regular users, but given enough time things get smoothened out

[-] sgtlighttree@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I think even the jump between 2.7 and 2.8 is huge in terms of user-friendliness and aesthetics, but yeah over time Blender has gotten way more features and support. Hell, it supported ARM Macs way before Maya did, and the latter only got ARM support earlier this year. I expected Apple to fully complete their transition before Autodesk managed to pull it off.

[-] ShustOne@lemmy.one 41 points 1 year ago

I was with you until GIMP. If one more person lists it as an alternative to Photoshop I'm gonna lose it. It's UI is terrible, you have to watch a guide just to get started. Can't read PSDs in any viable way. I'm sure people use it just fine but to call it an alternative to Photoshop is just plain lying.

[-] sparky678348@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago

You wretched Photoshop enthusiast. How dare you defile the sacred realm of pixelated beauty with your blasphemous tools of the Adobe empire! You, who bathe in the deceptive allure of layers and filters, know nothing of the humble struggle of a true purist.

While you revel in your so-called "advanced" software, I, a virtuous wielder of MS Paint, have embarked on an arduous journey. Armed only with a pixelated brush and limited color palette, I navigate the treacherous seas of artistry. Each stroke, deliberate and purposeful, carries the weight of my soul, for I am a master of simplicity.

Do you not understand the profound joy that arises from conquering the challenge of transforming mere pixels into a masterpiece? With each painstaking click, I breathe life into my creations, shaping reality with the precision of a pixel whisperer. Your Photoshop may grant you an abundance of tools, but it lacks the purity and authenticity that flows through the veins of my MS Paint.

Gimp, you say? Ah, a mere imitation of the great MS Paint, seeking validation in the realm of Photoshop. It too shall crumble beneath the weight of its pretentious ambitions. For true artistry lies not in the abundance of options, but in the mastery of limitations.

So, my misguided foe, before you spew your haughty words, remember the legacy of MS Paint. It has endured the test of time, witnessed the rise and fall of software giants, and remained steadfast in its simplistic grandeur. While your Photoshop may dazzle the masses with its flashy tricks, it is MS Paint that stands as the guardian of true artistic purity.

[-] loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 year ago

You also need a guide to get going in PS, its just a different App but fulfills the same tasks

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[-] FiftyShadesOfMyCow@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Use Krita as an alternative! 💕

[-] paorzz@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

The better alternative to Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign is Affinity. And yeah, while it’s not actually free, you only have to pay once and everything is yours.

Or for quick free edits, Photopea.

[-] PancakedWaffle@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Upvote for photopea.com it’s crazy how much functionality it has, love that site.

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[-] xaxl@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

It's an alternative image manipulation software. It's not a great replacement for PS though.

[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago

I 100% agree, I actually hate GIMP almost as much as I hate Photoshop.

Paint.net is a significantly better software for light to medium image manipulation, and Affinity is what I'd say is an actual replacement for Photoshop. Affinity isn't by any means FOSS but you can't win them all.

[-] HijaDelRey@mujico.org 7 points 1 year ago

Photopea on the other hand is amazing

[-] lawrence@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

The problem with GIMP is not its features, it's how they were implemented. The software isn't intuitive like Photoshop.

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[-] fubo@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This isn't just open-source software; it's also a collection of servers run by hobbyists.

There is no business here at all. You're not the product, but you're also not the customer — because there is no customer. What you're seeing here is a strictly nonprofit Internet service provided by people who just want to make one.

[-] mustbe3to20signs@feddit.de 16 points 1 year ago

Which makes Karen behaviour even worse and incomprehensible but most people are humble and don't care to much about some minor problems and a little learning curve

[-] dice@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

the slight technical competency needed to navigate the fediverse might help keep low-quality users away and mitigate the “summer reddit” effect.

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[-] 4L3moNemo@programming.dev 26 points 1 year ago

Somewhat agree, but don't get me started on a Gimp. To think that gimp was build to be a tool analogous to Photoshop (PS) is naive. It was born to demonstrate GTK GUI widgets and to check boxes on feature list (of supposedly paint program analogous to PS) from programmers perspective at most. Ok, they did the thing, checked the boxes, used all widgets, demonstrated that it works and from that day on it had and still has totaly inneficient workflow compared to PS and nobody cares about that. Answer to sugestions is almost always half assed, apple soused - you are holding it wrong, we are not PS. :)

My 2 cents, you can learn Gimp, you can adjust yourself to it, but if you have ever worked on PS and were good at it (with all its workflow, shortcuts, up to the level where you work one hand on keyboard, having most toolboxes hiden out of your view, etc..) you'll still feel gimpy. It's like comparing of giving commands to the gnome with an axe versus to an elf with a whole bunch of efficient specialised tools, spells and workflows – both trying to create art. I don't use PS daily for how much, maybe >8 years and use Gimp weekly for about 12years – I say, it is still gimpy as f.. And I'm programmer not a designer, designers usualy just hate it. I on another hand understant it (and it's history) and take it as it is, as an inferior gimpy cousin of PS :)

[-] norawibb@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 year ago

why does no one ever mention krita

[-] patachu@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

There's the answer I was looking for!

I watched a 3-hour Krita beginner's tutorial (can't remember the exact video but the narrator had a strong French accent) and he explained so many tricks and tips - hold down Ctrl to do this, hold down Shift to do another thing - that might not be intuitive from just poking around. But Krita really is the "built by artists, for artists" program once you have a keyboard & tablet config that fits one's personal workflow.

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

I would have if you hadn't already.

Though TBH if you're a mouse user gimp might actually be better... but practically noone doing serious graphics work is using a mouse. And it's not like in Blender where you might switch back and forth: Krita is tablet zen, make sure to read at least a bit of the manual.

[-] T4V0@lemmy.pt 10 points 1 year ago
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[-] Ddhuud@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

To think that gimp was build to be a tool analogous to Photoshop (PS) is naive. It was born to demonstrate GTK GUI widgets and to check boxes on feature list

GTK literally means "gimp tool-kit" GTK exists because of gimp and not the other way around. Also. Take a look at what Photoshop looked like in 1996 (around Gimp initial release), and tell me that's nothing like the gimp. They used to be pretty similar, but their evolutions diverged. Gimp just choosed to stick with the familiar interface, even in the light of PS' changes. Also PS had tens of millions invested in developing it. Had gimp got a tenth of those resources things would be pretty different for both projects.

[-] 4L3moNemo@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You are reasoning with your own conclusion that in the context of the question about workflow efectivenes, acceptance by users, tool usefullness it does somehow matter much or in any way – was it the library created as an afterthought or a tool created as a try to use library, or both where born at the same time. :) Who cares. It demoes everything GTK has/had, it was/is clone of photohop idea and they lost it long long ago, as it is now much less efective in it's workflows. If it was otherwise, the industry standard would be Gimp, but it is just a gimmics of it.

P.S. I'm 100% linux user, my servers linux, my desktop linux, my phone android (ok, that is halfassed linux :) ), my tools and software used, if and then possible, all are opensource and/or free. And still, after many years beeing totaly in FOSS enviroment, I just can't deny the worfly earned pedestal to Photoshop in its area of expertise. That is not to say that Gimp is somehow bad, by me it's just a remote next, and it doesn't even try to run to the same direction :) and it is his choise.

[-] ls64@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I feel also that gimp as a default for linux sucks. As someone that does not edit photos and just wants to edit some screenshot or make a shitty meme I want a default paint alternative. I'm amazed that it was only when I used mint that the void left by paint was filled with "drawing"

[-] BloodyFable@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

My go-to PShop replacement is Paint.Net, much less clunky than GIMP.

[-] kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 year ago

Paint.NET is lovely, I used to use it a lot for simple image editing tasks, but it's windows-only and by no means a replacement for Photoshop.

[-] knaugh@frig.social 4 points 1 year ago

really annoying that they used that name but don't have the domain, lol

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[-] Rusticus@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

As someone who used Reddit when it was first released, Lemmy is 10x better than Reddit v0.1 and obviously better than current Reddit.

I guess as a user I didn't see the back-of-house tools for mods and admins, but so far Lemmy is at least competitive. There are risks with server security and threat of being hacked, along with the size of the team.

[-] riskable@programming.dev 29 points 1 year ago

There are risks with server security and threat of being hacked

[Citation Needed]. I'm a security professional (my day job involves auditing code). I had a look through the Lemmy source (I'm also a Rust developer) and didn't see anything there that would indicate any security issues. They made good architecture decisions (from a security perspective).

NOTES ABOUT LEMMY SECURITY:

User passwords are hashed with bcrypt which isn't quite as good a choice as argon2 but it's plenty good enough (waaaaay better than most server side stuff where developers who don't know any better end up using completely inappropriate algorithms like SHA-256 or worse stuff like MD5). They hard-coded the use of DEFAULT_COST which I think is a mistake but it's not a big deal (maybe I'll open a ticket to get that changed to a configurable parameter after typing this).

I have some minor nitpicks with the variable naming which can lead to confusion when auditing the code (from a security perspective). For example: form_with_encrypted_password.password_encrypted = password_hash; A hashed password is not the same thing as an "encrypted password". An "encrypted password" can be reversed if you have the key used to encrypt it. A hashed password cannot be reversed without spending enormous amounts of computing resources (and possibly thousands of years in the case of bcrypt at DEFAULT_COST). A trivial variable name refactoring could do wonders here (maybe I should submit a PR).

From an OWASP common vulnerabilities standpoint Lemmy is protected via the frameworks it was built upon. For example, Lemmy uses Diesel for Object Relational Mapping (ORM, aka "the database framework") which necessitates the use of its own syntax instead of making raw SQL calls. This makes it so that Lemmy can (in theory) work with many different database back-ends (whatever Diesel supports) but it also completely negates SQL injection attacks.

Lemmy doesn't allow (executable) JavaScript in posts/comments (via various means not the least of which is passing everything through a Markdown compiler) so cross-site scripting vulnerabilities are taken care of as well as Cross Site Request Forgery (CSRF).

Cookie security is handled via the jsonwebtoken crate which uses a randomly-generated secret to sign all the fields in the cookie. So if you tried to change something in the cookie Lemmy would detect that and throw it out the whole cookie (you'd have to re-login after messing with it). This takes care of the most common session/authentication management vulnerabilities and plays a role in protecting against CSRF as well.

Lemmy's code also validates every single API request very robustly. It not only verifies that any given incoming request is in the absolute correct format it also validates the timestamp in the user's cookie (it's a JWT thing).

Finally, Lemmy is built using a programming language that was engineered from the ground up to be secure (well, free from bugs related to memory management, race conditions, and unchecked bounds): Rust. The likelihood that there's a memory-related vulnerability in the code is exceptionally low and Lemmy has tests built into its own code that validate most functions (clone the repo and run cargo test to verify). It even has a built-in test to validate that tampered cookies/credentials will fail to authenticate (which is fantastic--good job devs!).

REFERENCES:

[-] juicebox@aussie.zone 8 points 1 year ago

I have nothing to add, just wanted to give a kudos on the epic comment.

[-] palitu@lemmy.perthchat.org 6 points 1 year ago

nice write up! thanks :D

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[-] wiox@compuverse.uk 17 points 1 year ago

Well thats true for all software - being free/libre or not. It just takes time to get used to it.

For example, when I get a new phone - I spend the next months complaining over how much better the previous one was, until I dont.

[-] Blazingflames6073@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Hmmm, fuck those people honestly

[-] BehelitOutlaw@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

The thing is if they want people to migrate they should do something about it

[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 7 points 1 year ago

Okay but there is no profit incentive to increase migration so either you do or you don't

There is no one here trying to suck your ass to get ad revenue

[-] knaugh@frig.social 5 points 1 year ago

The problem is it takes time and money to do that, which you can't really get without some kind of structure. I've been wondering what a tech cooperative might look like lately. All the weight of a company like reddit, but owned by the users

[-] ThaijsClan@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

This is why I have 4 different apps to surf Lemmy. When one app is acting up I just switch to another. For example I was just barely scrolling in Jerboa but getting a bunch of network errors so I switched to Connect which is where I'm posting this comment. I'm totally down with being patient with Lemmy for the time being. Anything to get away from R*****

[-] ludw@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Have you tried Liftoff? I think it's the best one so far for Android.

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[-] Strangian@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

I’m using wefwef right now, and its all running pretty smoothly. No complaints here

[-] Befernafardofo@feddit.it 3 points 1 year ago

I have seen wefwef cited a bit now, what is it? Forgive my ignorance, but I'm new to Lemmy and I'm still learning. It is not an app, is it a website? I have tried to connect to wefwef.net but with no success, so I'm a bit confused.

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[-] Yaks@lemmy.fmhy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

I am a reddit refugee and just down for fun ride on the bleeding edge. I am finding a lot of the same communities here and I am happy that Lemmy is here to fill the void.

[-] oldLady80@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I've been here since the blackout and everything is great, apart from a few times when the site seemed a bit slow. I don't even miss reddit anymore.

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[-] mtcerio@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It's not just that: it is made worse by the fact that, being "free", resources are limited. For example, Lemmy.world has been experiencing several hiccups and it's bloody slow at the moment. I get it, it runs on small servers. But the QoS is bad nevertheless; how can you expect the average Joe coming from Reddit to stay here?

[-] SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And for some reason, mainstream media seems to discourage people from FOSS projects. Just look at the coverage on Lemmy.

"It's clearly not ready yet."

Why? We don't know. It's just not.

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this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2023
211 points (96.1% liked)

Showerthoughts

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The best ones are thoughts that many people can relate to and they find something funny or interesting in regular stuff.

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