300
submitted 5 months ago by floofloof@lemmy.ca to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] Mereo@lemmy.ca 163 points 5 months ago

They will just enable it by default later when the heat passes. They always do. You no longer own Windows.

[-] lectricleopard@lemmy.world 26 points 5 months ago

Never did. It's just more and more obvious with each new "feature" that it's built for monetization, not for user functionality.

[-] Mereo@lemmy.ca 18 points 5 months ago

In the '90s and early 2000s, Microsoft's business model was the classic one of selling products to customers. Today, it's all about the cloud, advertising, and AI, where the product is the user.

[-] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 months ago

My prediction is essentially one day windows pcs will be Linux that act like thin clients that go to windows 365.

[-] Geyser@lemmy.world 90 points 5 months ago

“The ability to disable the…feature during the setup process…” does not mean opt in, that means opt out.

Knowing windows setup, you need to click customize during the setup process and then go through several setup pages before you’re presented this option (or have to dig into additional/advanced settings to find it).

Most people won’t do this, won’t know how to do this, or will receive the pc with the initial setup complete and won’t know if this is on or off.

[-] Norgur@fedia.io 51 points 5 months ago

And even if you find it, it will have an idiotic and obscure name, like “advanced history experience” or something absolutely nondescript

[-] teft@lemmy.world 32 points 5 months ago

Also when you try to disable it they will use all sorts of dark pattern pop ups to dissuade you from disabling it.

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[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 34 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

not to mention they are known to re enable telemetry on systems after updates.

i doubt this will be any different.

[-] simplejack@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

This is the screen the user is presented during setup.

[-] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 10 points 5 months ago

Even without all the invasion of privacy implications, I'm skeptical it would even work. Source: 20 years of "Windows is checking for a solution to the problem" that has never worked even once.

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 3 points 5 months ago

I've actually had those troubleshooters work for me several times in recent years. Mostly fixing networking issues.

[-] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 2 points 5 months ago

I guess for the basic stuff I do when I've had programs crash I've never seen it do anything, but nice to know it's not completely useless

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 5 points 5 months ago

Frankly, this is one of the areas I'm most looking forward to seeing what integrated AI can do for Windows. A couple of months ago I was having trouble with getting my printer to work and what I ended up doing was taking a screenshot of the printer settings and pasting the literal image of the screen into Bing Chat to ask it what I was doing wrong. It was able to parse my settings out of the image and figured out what I needed to change to make the printer work.

Having a troubleshooting AI like that that can actually "read" the entire state of my machine would be great.

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[-] MudMan@fedia.io 7 points 5 months ago

There is a screenshot of the opt-in screen in the article. There is no default, just two buttons to say yes or no.

I swear, outrage should only be allowed based on the amount of work one is willing to put in before expressing it. If you don't do the reading, you don't get to be publicly angry. It'd save us all so much trouble.

For the record, the feature was always optional, as per the original announcement. Presumably the change is it is now part of the setup flow where it was going to be a settings toggle instead.

Which is, incidentally, how this used to work the first time Windows had this feature, back when it was called "Timeline" in Windows 10.

[-] Geyser@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

The screenshot doesn’t show preceding flow to reach it, but I did miss the “requires windows hello to enable” bit, which does suggest that wherever it is, it would have to be opt-in.

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[-] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 58 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Ok, let's assume (for the sake of argument) that everything is on the up-and-up, and Microsoft will behave in a completely equitable and user-friendly way with regard to this feature going forward. Where does that leave us?

There is a spyware feature built into Windows 11. It is off by default, but a malware that wants to capture this kind of information doesn't have to install anything, and it doesn't have to run any background processes that might get caught by a system monitor or blocked by application whitelisting. All it has to do is turn this built-in feature on, and then exfiltrate the data later.

Setting this off by default doesn't remove the security issue.

[-] sugartits@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Ok, let's assume (for the sake of argument) that everything is on the up-and-up, and Microsoft will behave in a completely equitable and user-friendly way with regard to this feature going forward

This is so fantastical that there's no point in even having the hypothetical discussion about it.

[-] HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

You're right, it's fantastical, but it's still worth talking about.

It's worth talking about as it solidifies the argument more than just assuming your opponent is acting poorly. The argument of "Even if Microsoft is a saint, it's still a bad idea. But we know Microsoft also has a history of data collection, spying, anti-patterns etc." is a much stronger argument than the latter half on its own

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[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 49 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

They're just going to do a classical boil-the-frog operation:

  • Step 1: Make it opt-in and present it as the new cool thing.
  • Step 2: Make it opt-out, and if the users opts out, show a scary warning about how the cool thing won't work anymore.
  • Step 3: Silently opt-in, and hide the opt-out option deeply in a settings menu.
  • Step 4: Silently opt-in, remove opt-out, but it still works with a registry hack. Microsoft apologists will still thinks it's cool because "just use this simple registry hack bro".
  • Step 5: Remove opt-out alltogether, and silently opt-in everyone who had previously opted out.
  • Step 6: Enjoy their boiled frog!
[-] lemming741@lemmy.world 31 points 5 months ago

You forgot Step 0: make an announcement so overtly egregious that when you walk it back, the compromise sounds reasonable

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[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

"You can still install it with a local account!"

[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Just disconnect your network cable, press this magic key combination and type this undocumented command: "MSBLAOIGKSDF /ACZSF"

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[-] scottmeme@sh.itjust.works 40 points 5 months ago

Still in the os...

[-] Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml 38 points 5 months ago
[-] InternetUser2012@midwest.social 15 points 5 months ago

"For only $5.99 per month you can opt out of the service! Sign up today!" - MS in the likely near future

[-] rob200@lemmy.cafe 29 points 5 months ago

I still don't trust Microsoft. I hadn't bought a Windows since Windows 10, and this won't change that.

[-] hopesdead@startrek.website 21 points 5 months ago

WHY THE FUCK WOULD SOMEONE WILLINGLY OPT IN?!

[-] kboy101222@sh.itjust.works 29 points 5 months ago

Cause they're going to show a pop-up that advertises some "cool new feature", and the 99% of users who aren't tech literate will say yes and never think about it again.

People on this site severely overestimate how much the average person cares and their overall level of tech.

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[-] pixel_prophet@lemm.ee 10 points 5 months ago

People will be deceived into opting in via some UI anti pattern like they do with the online user accounts and onedrive now.

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[-] zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com 19 points 5 months ago

Until they flip the setting by themselves because ms tend to do that

[-] the_doktor@lemmy.zip 18 points 5 months ago

...says the company that wanted to destroy every bit of your privacy. I don't care what they "promise", don't listen to them.

Microsoft is finished. Install Linux.

[-] Fiivemacs@lemmy.ca 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Lies but ok.

I'm sure it's corporate speak for 'unless you opt into opting out of Microsoft recording everything's

I have zero reason to trust companies who are known to not be trust worthy.

And who's to say they don't have this 'opt in' setting enabled for a week then upon the first update, whoops...it was auto enabled for everyone 'sorry...you must not out now and sorry not sorry but we already stole everything. See y'all next update!'

[-] x0x7@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago

They use dark patterns and cryptic dialog boxes to get old people to opt in.

[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Are you certain you don't want to enhance your Microsoft experience?

^YES, I CRAVE A LIMITED ESPERIENCE^

NO, GIVE ME THE BEST THING

[-] MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

If it's an embedded feature, then I categorically refuse to trust that I the user will have sole control over the on/off toggle.

I am basing my suspicions on Microsoft fucking around with my user settings over several decades and Windows iterations.

[-] tomkatt@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

Microsoft will just enable it via an update once all the fervor dies down. They haven’t abandoned the plan, and won’t, not while your data is pure profit for them.

Hell with them, no more Windows PCs in my home. I’m sick to death of everyone and their mother trying to both advertise to me and sell my data without my permission and at zero benefit to me.

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Do they really think we believe any of their lies? We don't control Windows, anti-libre software (it fails to include a libre software license text file, like AGPL). Dangerous! 🚩

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[-] Sensitivezombie@lemmy.zip 6 points 5 months ago

No one is going to opt-in to having screenshots taken of their activities on the OS. If no one opts-in then it will hinder Microsoft's original plan of collection such data for copilot. Along comes the new marketing language to soften the approach and they still collect data.

[-] x0x7@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

No one would opt-in to having all of their personal files sent to the cloud. But Windows managed to get my father using OneDrive even though he had no idea what it was. He was absolutely pissed when I told him. Somehow that wasn't enough to get off of windows completely though.

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 6 points 5 months ago

I feel like if browser history was invented today people would have the same reaction to it.

[-] towerful@programming.dev 16 points 5 months ago

Browser history was implemented before companies massively abused privacy.
It was an honest feature for users.
We also learned a lot about security regarding password/credential extraction from browsers.

Windows Recall might be an honest feature. It might be super secure and really useful.
But Microsoft doesn't have the trust to pull this off

[-] sugartits@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

It might be super secure and really useful.

It's not.

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[-] Tronn4@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Microsoft speaks.... thhhhe bullllshitttt -lazlo voice

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 3 points 5 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Microsoft had originally planned to turn Recall on by default, but the company now says it will offer the ability to disable the controversial AI-powered feature during the setup process of new Copilot Plus PCs.

Recall uses local AI models to screenshot mostly everything you see or do on your computer and then give you the ability to search and retrieve anything in seconds.

Everything in Recall is designed to remain local and private on-device, so no data is used to train Microsoft’s AI models.

TotalRecall extracts the Recall database so you can easily view what text is stored and the screenshots that Microsoft’s feature has generated.

“In some cases, this will mean prioritizing security above other things we do, such as releasing new features or providing ongoing support for legacy systems.”

Davuluri references Microsoft’s SFI principles in today’s response, noting that the company is taking action to improve Recall security.


The original article contains 747 words, the summary contains 151 words. Saved 80%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[-] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 months ago

*Windows won’t take screenshots of everything you do after all (that the company will admit to without you knowing)— unless you opt in

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this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2024
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