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[-] adam_y@lemmy.world 194 points 5 months ago

And opposing those actions is not antisemitic.

We take those two things together as truth and we are getting somewhere.

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[-] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 53 points 5 months ago

I really wish this didn’t need to be clarified every few days. Thanks, zionists and white supremacists!

[-] yesman@lemmy.world 44 points 5 months ago

You know, it's that same right wing government's hasbara for the 70 years to confuse the difference between an Israeli, a Jew, and a Zionist so they could use antisemitism as a cudgel and the Shoah as a shield.

FINE: If I'm not allowed to criticize Israel without fixing antisemitism first, then Israel can't have any more weapons or cover in the UN until they solve race relations in the US.

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 37 points 5 months ago

I only hate the zionists and a great many of them are not Jewish.

[-] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee 8 points 5 months ago

Many of them are open antisemites even. Zionism and Antisemitism are allied ideologies.

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[-] snooggums@midwest.social 30 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The current right wing government also doesn't represent every citizen of Israel either, but it is ok to use 'Israel' as a shorthand for the actions of the current right wing government when the actions are a continuation of decades of similar colonialism and the government is in power due to how the majority of the population voted.

So hatred against everyone in Israel is also wrong, but saying Israel is committing genocide doesn't require saying it is the current government.

This meme should say "The actions of Israel does not represent the will of all Jews,,,"

Edit: I expect everyone who down voted also refrains from using Russia, China, or the United States and other names of countries when making criticisms for consistency. "Russia didn't invade Ukraine, the current Putin led government did."

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[-] magnetosphere@fedia.io 18 points 5 months ago

This is why I try to specify that my complaints are about Netanyahu or the IDF.

[-] puppy@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago
[-] magnetosphere@fedia.io 20 points 5 months ago

I’m a little fuzzy on exactly what Zionism is, so I just don’t talk about it, rather than saying something accidentally racist, and/or making an ass of myself.

[-] BoneALisa@lemm.ee 15 points 5 months ago

Someone correct me if im wrong, but Zionism is Isreali radical nationalism, their primary goal is the creation of a Jewish ethno-state in current isreal and palestine.

The Youtuber Shaun has a great video going through the history of the conflict and Zionism: https://youtu.be/3xottY-7m3k

[-] bl_r@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 5 months ago

You are mostly there. One of the most important notes is that the project is settler colonial, and it is also helpful to point out that zionism is older than Israel, and it has been around for over 100 years.

+1 on that Shaun vid, it’s great

[-] BoneALisa@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago

Yea sorry, the creation of an ethno-state in palestine through colonialism. I did not know that its older than isreal though, good to know.

And shauns vids are top tier lol.

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[-] Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 5 months ago

I like this approach. I wish more people would be honest about the limits of their arguments instead of just saying whatever they think will help them 'win'.

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[-] sparkle@lemm.ee 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Zionism is basically the belief that Jewish people deserve to own Palestine/Jerusalem ("Zion") and that non-Jews should be ethnically cleansed from "Zion" (the Nakba)

[-] Microw@lemm.ee 5 points 5 months ago

The second part of your definition definitely isnt true for all forms of Zionism. Zionism is as broad of a political ideology as liberalism, conservativism or communism is. Some zionists will agree with that, some won't or "soften" it to "we'll let them stay as second class citizens lol"

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[-] Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 months ago

I clarify my complaints are about Israel, the state, not Jewish people who do not live in the country.

You cannot have Netanyahu or the IDF without Israel existing.

[-] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 18 points 5 months ago

How can I tell decent Jewish organizations from those who actively support genocide?

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago

Read what they and their representatives publish and post on official social media accounts.

Those who support the genocide in deed are almost never shy about doing so with words too.

Anyways, Jewish Voice For Peace are the gold standard in accurate naming and one of the best anti war crime organizations in the world, so that's at least one right there 🙂

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[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 11 points 5 months ago

Legitimately, the fact that they're an American org will usually be a fair indicator.

The zionist movement fell flat on its face in the US during the foundation of Israel, so most pro-palestinian jewish activism will be based out of the US as well.

This dynamic has intensified enough since that initial split that Israeli Judaism has actually taken on fundamentally different qualities from American Judaism, to the point where some scholars would consider them separate denominational groups.

It's also fostered enough bad blood that a frequent dismissal of Israelis when hearing of Jews who oppose the settlement project is to say "they must just be stupid Americans."

They legit try to do the "they aren't authentic!" bit other old worlders and Latine folks will whip out when putting down their American cousins for not being identical to them, except with the Israelis it's even funnier because bitch you ain't where you came from either, that was literally the whole point of this great displacement project y'all whipped up!

[-] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The jewish population in israel is in a better position to effect change than the loudest voices anywhere else

[-] Tryptaminev@lemm.ee 9 points 5 months ago

And most of them happily endorse the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. We need to oust the Israelis as the fascists they are and make it clear that they do no speak for Jews in general and their fascist ideology is in direct contradiction to the values of Judaism. I am most worried for and most impressed by the few Jews in Israel that fight this fascist regime and get attacked and in return by it, while the West proclaims to stand for the fight against antisemitism by supporting the abuse of Jews who stand up for Jewish values.

[-] Jhogenbaum@leminal.space 13 points 5 months ago

... Yep... And we repeat that sentiment for Hamas.

[-] WallEx@feddit.de 3 points 5 months ago

Yes, thank you!

[-] spirinolas@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

I wish we could say the same about Israelis.

[-] Triasha@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Not all Israelis support netanyahu or the death/colonisation. Even if maybe the majority do.

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[-] Signtist@lemm.ee 10 points 5 months ago

The very belief that the decisions of the powerful few are a reflection of the opinions of the people as a whole is how we got ourselves into this mess in the first place...

[-] BilboBargains@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

Same for Americans. There are some good ones in there.

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[-] aleph@lemm.ee 4 points 5 months ago

Thousands of copies need to be airdropped over Capitol Hill by helicopter.

[-] jbk@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 5 months ago

on a sidenote how's this format a meme, it's just weird to me

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this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2024
766 points (94.5% liked)

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